Ignition timing

Does anyone happen to know what the ignition timing is on a stock 212 hemi. Ive read anywhere between 20 and 24 degrees....
 

Nesloney

Member
The rules for stock Preds at the track I run are stated something like this.
16 degree advance max.
offset key can be used to advance or retard timing, but must not be any more than 16 degrees advanced.

Knowing the inconsistencies of the predator right out of the box, one could assume that you could find one with as much as 20 degrees advanced.
you could also potentially find one with only 12 degrees advanced or anywhere in between.....or More..... or Less.
That's the word around here anyway.
 

alvin l nunley

Site Supporter
That's kind of wild! Is there any documentation to prove it. I would like to see test results where the coils all had the exact same spacing from the flywheel. And it would be nice to see them use a depth mic to confirm the precise point of the advance.
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
Al : The red Chinese communist do not provide documentation .
Take the mans word for it , things are going quite well .
8* variance seems like a lot , when you have 10 year olds operating the equipment under armed supervision you can't expect much .
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
Totally un related ; though not far off .
I bought 2 ac dust covers for my truck as i lost one .
Made in china , went to screw it on . No go , there are no threads in either one .
They got my money though so it was a success for them .
Similar issue , we were at a WKA race with fuel pump around . Go to wal mart buy a siphon hose bulb assembly .
It won't work, as there is no check valve , again a sucsess they got my money and are selling them still , now 14 years later .
 
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So im assuming your telling me the only true way to find the timing is to check with degree wheel. Ive tried that on different engines and i find i keep getting varied results, not sure why, im using a piston stops and doing it the way it was outline in what appeared to be a good video.
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
Yes that is it . Try doing the same engine 3-4 times see if you get the same result . That will verify your method .
Al has a very nice spread sheet were as you use the in the hole method , it requires pulling the head though .
 

alvin l nunley

Site Supporter
So im assuming your telling me the only true way to find the timing is to check with degree wheel. Ive tried that on different engines and i find i keep getting varied results, not sure why, im using a piston stops and doing it the way it was outline in what appeared to be a good video.
Using a degree wheel, with a positive stop, and finding top dead center, is such a rudimentary task, I'm sure you're doing it right. So, assuming you have top dead center right, and things are not coming out right, perhaps there are other things not aligned properly and that's making you feel like you're not finding top dead center correctly. You think? Tight quality control is expensive to maintain, maybe that's why the Chinese can sell engines for 1/3 the price, no quality control?
 

Yakattack

Member
If using a piston stop... in these engines... a loose piston/rings...will provide piston rock... possibly compiling mixed results...
 

alvin l nunley

Site Supporter
If using a piston stop... in these engines... a loose piston/rings...will provide piston rock... possibly compiling mixed results...
That peak my interest, so I went to my CAD/CAM program and drew it up. If the piston had .006" of clearance, and you measured all the way out on the edge of the piston, a piston straight up and a piston rocked at an angle, changes height, again, right at the edge of the piston, .004". Now that's right at the edge, as you go closer to the center, that number gets smaller. Now, a piston travels, in a clone, from 35° to 36°, .011". That means .004" difference would be about a 1/3 of a degree. And like I said, the closer you get to the center of the piston the smaller that .004" number gets. I just went back and checked. At about a 3rd of the way to the center of the piston, that .004" becomes .0028". That would be less than a 1/4 of a degree. Now I understand, like me, we all strive for perfection, and there's nothing wrong with that, but we don't want to get too anel.
 

Nesloney

Member
The rules for stock Preds at the track I run are stated something like this.
16 degree advance max.
offset key can be used to advance or retard timing, but must not be any more than 16 degrees advanced.

Knowing the inconsistencies of the predator right out of the box, one could assume that you could find one with as much as 20 degrees advanced.
you could also potentially find one with only 12 degrees advanced or anywhere in between.....or More..... or Less.
That's the word around here anyway.



Clarification:
After finding perfect TDC.
Degree wheel set to 0.
Align leading edge of magnet with trailing edge of coil....degree wheel should not exceed 16° as a point of reference.
My apologies for giving incorrect/misleading information.
True ignition timing is "around" 24° advanced.
 

mike97760

Site Supporter
Al, although these inconsistancies seem alarming, you have to remember these motors are only manufactured to run at 3650 rpm and last as long as the warranty period covers. And sell to the end user for 99 dollars. Dozens of companies make components, several for each part in the engine. That explains the variances.
 
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