Innovation Vs. Cheating

viice

Member
Spawning from the "You Make The Call" threads.
Here's an interesting and slightly uncomfortable discussion.

Where do you draw the line? How do you define them?
Explicitly going against the rules is one thing... Exploiting vagueness in a rule is another thing.
Ultimately... If a rule get's written about something you did and you're legal. That's the pinnacle of innovation!
 
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sundog

Member
If you're pushing the rules you must not care about being embarrassed in front of everyone you're trying to earn respect/friendship from.
 

viice

Member
If you're pushing the rules you must not care about being embarrassed in front of everyone you're trying to earn respect/friendship from.
But if it's legal (not concealed explicit cheating)... It's fair game! You just did it before everyone else.
Same reason we all use these trick oils and lubricants...
 

viice

Member
trick oils and lubricants? please explain?
You're free to choose what oils you put in your engine. Depending on the rules for your track.
You're free to choose how you oil/grease your bearings. And even what bearings you can run (Depending on if your rules have stated you can't run ceramic bearings)
 

viice

Member
Side note. We're all out there to make friends and not enemies.
But if you can get tech'd down and torn down and you're 100% legal.
No one has anything to complain about (except for your poor driving! haha).
 

Bumpy

Member
The lines are drawn by the rules and the same rules apply to everyone.
Well, everyone except Cheaters, who are special and rules don't apply to them.
Innovation is finding that less duration makes more HP and duration is not measured
and is stated as such in the rules.
Cheating is dinking with duration when the rule says you can't.
The Stealth heads from a few months back are a good point.
The rule said no machining on the head (valve seats not included) but there was no measurement.
Machining on a Stealth head port looked exactly like machining from China so
no one could tell, and someone machined it for an advantage aka cheated.
 

Russ69

New member
I don't agree with this but it has been said that the rules only apply to those items that get inspected...everything else is open.
 
The lines are drawn by the rules and the same rules apply to everyone.
Well, everyone except Cheaters, who are special and rules don't apply to them.
Innovation is finding that less duration makes more HP and duration is not measured
and is stated as such in the rules.
Cheating is dinking with duration when the rule says you can't.
The Stealth heads from a few months back are a good point.
The rule said no machining on the head (valve seats not included) but there was no measurement.
Machining on a Stealth head port looked exactly like machining from China so
no one could tell, and someone machined it for an advantage aka cheated.

Same with cams... No one is running a cam from the factory... they've all been custom machined... People are paying $1,400+ for clones now... Stock is the most convoluted, expensive class in karting...
 

CKR47

Member
It's all about your interpretation of the rules. Your gut can usually tell you if you are blatantly cheating or if you are trying to use clever ways to find speed.
 

viice

Member
How 'bout if it has no spec. but says 'no machining' ?
Or it has a spec. but you machine to the spec. ?
I say if it has no spec but says no machining... You can't "machine" it... (Doesn't say you can't sand by hand, but that's a grey area, and I won't tell you to do that) Rule should state "No modification."
If it has a spec and you machine to the spec... perfectly legal... unless you wear it and it's out of spec. Now you're illegal. Good luck putting that material back!

Old Spec Miata trick was to blend certain areas of the cylinder head that the rules said you couldn't blend. Run it for a few hours and let the carbon build up obscure any modifications... Very illegal, but ran under many tech inspectors eyes for years.
 
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Ted Hamilton

Design Drafter / Racer
I've heard of bead blasting to cover machining....and carbon-ing up things too.... At the end of the day, you have to live with your conscience. If you don't have one, you may win more, but you probably won't enjoy life as much... I'd rather win at the race that counts eternally, and have good clean fun within the (creatively interpreted) rules.

Some guys used to have nail polish of every color in their pit stall to "re seal" head bolts... And I've heard of seal manipulation, counterfeiting, and bypassing... For some, creatively cheating IS the game instead of the race results, I gather. Still, I'd rather run in a gentlemanly way.
 

1fasttiller

Member
I'm very against blatant cheating and will always teach my kids cheating sucks but working in "Grey" areas of rule books and being innovative is perfectly acceptable in my book. It is these types of folks that have got us where we are today in the sport of racing. It happens at every level and always will.

Here is another scenario for you all to think on- local tracks that don't hardly do any tech and you're almost 100% certain that other purple plate kart in your sons class turning 6600rpm every night has to be illegal but the only thing that is checked is the plate via flashlight looking through the carb... Do you keep telling your son that he is cheating and we won't that is why you get beat even when our kart is 100%? or do you "keep up with the Jones' and flirt with areas you know won't be checked?
 
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