Inside prep that don’t makes tires softer

Let’s Roll said:
What kind of inside prep can I use that want soften tire and has no oils in it thanks
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You can not internal a tire and get no softening. Its a by product of doing so. Any chemical you put inside a tire, whether it has oils or no oils, it will soften. Some softens more than others.
However if you roll off the wheel, and use a faster evaporating chemical, you can minimize that effect of softening, but it also will dry out the tire. Thats why you see most internals has some type of an oil to control the amount of softening as well as drying out the tire too much.
 
Earl is mostly correct.
We have an internal (Medium Rare) that softens very little. I call it a conditioner and it definitely does have oil in it, but it doesn't break the sidewalls down like most internal preps, including our Pink Panther. Medium Rare works great on high bite tracks and pavement tracks where heat build up is a concern and you're wanting to pull fresh oil through the tire but not soften or break down the sidewalls.

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🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
www.youtube.com
35 years of service to the karting industry ~ 1Cor 9:24
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
 
CarlsonMotorsports said:
Earl is mostly correct.
We have an internal (Medium Rare) that softens very little. I call it a conditioner and it definitely does have oil in it, but it doesn't break the sidewalls down like most internal preps, including our Pink Panther. Medium Rare works great on high bite tracks and pavement tracks where heat build up is a concern and you're wanting to pull fresh oil through the tire but not soften or break down the sidewalls.

-----
🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
www.youtube.com
35 years of service to the karting industry ~ 1Cor 9:24
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
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Another post of yours that I am going to have to Respectfully agree to disagree on at least part of it.
 
CH3Racing said:
You can roll our Tire Tuff Original and it will not soften the Durometer. It will soften the carcass of the tire but not drop the duro.
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How is this possible? The durometer is a measure of the resiliance of the rubber to compression, measured by a little spike, registering on the Shore A, B, or C hardness scale....won't any softening affect duro? What do you mean by "carcass?" Honest questions -- I have an interest in tire engineering.
 
The answer to your question is how deep does a durometer measure. It can only read so far down, just as it can only read the size of it's needle not really around it.. So the underlying rubber where the cords are is the carcass. It will read different than the rubber above it, depending on how thick the tire is.
 
ABR #69 said:
The answer to your question is how deep does a durometer measure. It can only read so far down, just as it can only read the size of it's needle not really around it.. So the underlying rubber where the cords are is the carcass. It will read different than the rubber above it, depending on how thick the tire is.
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Well, I can't imagine people are duro'ing the INSIDE of the tire...LOL. I guess this affects the sidewall spring rate and tendency of the tire to "lay over" without softening the actual tread... yet another indicator that we're trying to get tires to do something they weren't designed to....or rather, that tire mfr.'s aren't producing what the market is REALLY demanding. Of course this is obvious when people are abusing tires, trying to stuff them on a rim that's 2" too wide from the design engineering...
 
Ted Hamilton said:
Well, I can't imagine people are duro'ing the INSIDE of the tire...LOL. I guess this affects the sidewall spring rate and tendency of the tire to "lay over" without softening the actual tread... yet another indicator that we're trying to get tires to do something they weren't designed to....or rather, that tire mfr.'s aren't producing what the market is REALLY demanding. Of course this is obvious when people are abusing tires, trying to stuff them on a rim that's 2" too wide from the design engineering...
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I still have not really heard a good explanation as to why we are using rims that are too wide for the tire, rather than the tire mfr 's making wider tires?
 
Bigeasyebo said:
I still have not really heard a good explanation as to why we are using rims that are too wide for the tire, rather than the tire mfr 's making wider tires?
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To reduce rolling resistance.

Rims wider than tread width spread sidewalls out, stiffening them.

We can now use lower air pressures to make contact patch more compliant, but not give away power flexing sidewall of tire.

General concensus would be making even narrower tread width and keeping sidewalls stretched onto wider rims.
This is why rim width limited to 10 inches in most rulesets.
 
Higher pressures, softer rubber. Time for some of these:
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Ted Hamilton said:
Well, I can't imagine people are duro'ing the INSIDE of the tire...LOL. I guess this affects the sidewall spring rate and tendency of the tire to "lay over" without softening the actual tread... yet another indicator that we're trying to get tires to do something they weren't designed to....or rather, that tire mfr.'s aren't producing what the market is REALLY demanding. Of course this is obvious when people are abusing tires, trying to stuff them on a rim that's 2" too wide from the design engineering...
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It's precisely this, loosening the cords without softening the outside. This allows the carcass to deform and move to build heat, while not allowing the tread to become too soft. This can be controlled up the sidewall to some degree as Earl said. But, rubber will leach and even with fast absorbing and fast evaporating chemicals the rubber will still Leach some into the sidewalls.

It's VERY hard to reduce sidewall softening, but generally you want to reduce the amount of sidewall effect for high bitr southeast racing, and do the external work to get the tread where it needs to be.
 
racing promotor said:
Earl not being fully correct .
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Earl stated: "You can not internal a tire and get no softening. Its a by product of doing so. Any chemical you put inside a tire, whether it has oils or no oils, it will soften. Some softens more than others.
However if you roll off the wheel, and use a faster evaporating chemical, you can minimize that effect of softening, but it also will dry out the tire. Thats why you see most internals has some type of an oil to control the amount of softening as well as drying out the tire too much."

To which I said he is mostly correct, then gave an exception that I am quite familiar with, our Medium Rare. Medium Rare will soften little to none, and it will not break down the sidewalls at all (durometer and sidewall spring rate.) . You are welcome to try the product and measure it for yourself, Ken.
Chris then offered a product from their product line which he says will not soften the duro.
Highly refined mineral oils are chemicals that do little to soften. Even water is a chemical with its make-up being H2O. Would you not agree that water will not soften?

"Any chemical that you put inside a tire will soften" is not entirely true. Certainly some do soften more than others by design. I'd agree with the rest of his statement and suggest that he was possibly offering a generalization rather than a blanket statement of the effect of all chemicals being used internally.
 
CarlsonMotorsports said:
Earl stated: "You can not internal a tire and get no softening. Its a by product of doing so. Any chemical you put inside a tire, whether it has oils or no oils, it will soften. Some softens more than others.
However if you roll off the wheel, and use a faster evaporating chemical, you can minimize that effect of softening, but it also will dry out the tire. Thats why you see most internals has some type of an oil to control the amount of softening as well as drying out the tire too much."

To which I said he is mostly correct, then gave an exception that I am quite familiar with, our Medium Rare. Medium Rare will soften little to none, and it will not break down the sidewalls at all (durometer and sidewall spring rate.) . You are welcome to try the product and measure it for yourself, Ken.
Chris then offered a product from their product line which he says will not soften the duro.
Highly refined mineral oils are chemicals that do little to soften. Even water is a chemical with its make-up being H2O. Would you not agree that water will not soften?

"Any chemical that you put inside a tire will soften" is not entirely true. Certainly some do soften more than others by design. I'd agree with the rest of his statement and suggest that he was possibly offering a generalization rather than a blanket statement of the effect of all chemicals being used internally.
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Chris also states it WILL SOFTEN the Carcass of the tire , which would go into the sidewall, Earl never mentions Durometer, nor the outside of the tire patch that actually makes contact with the track surface.
Plus Earl's always correct in the end , even if all us reading misinterpreted because of a few words he chose.
I'll hold my position to respectful agree to disagree , now with that being said sounds like your product or track tacs would be 2 good choices for the OP to try .
 
Let me put it this way out of all the regulars on here always posting , you got some that are some what correct , which is the majority . You got some mostly correct .
Then you have one handful of guys that before I'd question there correctness , I'd question my interpretation of what there saying 😉
Earl is one of the 5 ( and I wouldn't be one of the other 4 )
 
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