Track Tac

Just for Fun, While the topic is " HOT " let's debate prep.

Prep costs money and time, regardless of whether it's one brand tire or open tire.
But with open tire, I know I can show up anywhere and be legal...
 
racing promotor said:
In your case I'll ask question a little different since you have ran some BMS series races but also run some local points events.
Do you feel allowing prep saves you money in the end, or cost you more money in the end ?
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Costs. But you know most of my situation. We still weekly race on a set of rs 22 and ls 11 that came on the kart 3 years ago. The only night I ever saw them wear was a night we prepped too soft and it feathered the rf, but we were super quick...

For BMS we have 1 set of rs tires we won from a Selinsgrove championship and the ls tires were given to us by another racer. While we win a decent amount at weekly stuff, we suck at BMS. Achey drivers kick our rear.

We finally have more tires no for this coming season. Maybe 4 sets I think, but I doubt I'll suddenly start prepping like a mad man, I'm not buying $800 worth of chemicals to do it.
 
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racing promotor said:
Let's start with a Series using a tire rule running 5 different tracks, allowing prep cost you money OR saves you money ?
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Ok now I fully understand the question here, I say PREP is an expense.

So a no prep spec tire would be more cost effective way yes.

But...... always a but. Your tire bill may increase due to wanting to be on fresh rubber? If you allow cutting that's a expense but after that the investment is typically over, now its maintaining a finish with sanding techniques.
 
Ted Hamilton said:
Prep costs money and time, regardless of whether it's one brand tire or open tire.
But with open tire, I know I can show up anywhere and be legal...
Click to expand...

I like that idea and I don't have to buy in to a investment of each tracks spec tire.

I like open tire rule on a sidebar.
 
flattop1 said:
Your going off topic .
Same tire same tracks prep saved us cash .
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I am not against prep, I am against tire rule. Saving money idk how that would be calculated. But I do know I was able to condition my tires in the past with home brew prep and they did last longer.
 
Ok let's change it up, your in an area where all your local Friday and Saturday night racing is on Burris only tires, your running a Burris only series at 5 different tracks, does the fact that prep is allowed in the end save you money ? Or cost you more money ?
 
racing promotor said:
Ok let's change it up, your in an area where all your local Friday and Saturday night racing is on Burris only tires, your running a Burris only series at 5 different tracks, does the fact that prep is allowed in the end save you money ? Or cost you more money ?
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Open compound or 33 only?
 
Thats a tough one but id say no prep would be cheaper.... BUT im not personally familliar with how 11's 22's etc act with no prep. Im under a 33 rule around here.
 
racing promotor said:
Ok let's change it up, your in an area where all your local Friday and Saturday night racing is on Burris only tires, your running a Burris only series at 5 different tracks, does the fact that prep is allowed in the end save you money ? Or cost you more money ?
Click to expand...

I would say being your using burris it would better. 11,22,33s ect. In your case prep saves. Dude to not having to make major duro changes.
mike97760 said:
A couple years ago I would have flatly said prep is costing money. But now I'm seeing us run up front on older tires that have been prepped well, so I don't know. You can spend a lot of money on brand new tires compared to prepping older ones smartly with the same results.
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Is it fair to say that with the uprising costs that people are purchasing VS the homebrew as we often call it has increased the cost? How far does a QT of prep really go on the outside, it doesn't go far on the inside.

$25 inside prep , can do 10 tires at 90cc = 3 ounces per tire 32ounces to QT. Is $2.50 per tire. Now question is how long does it stay in and effective? When should it be rerolled.

Seems the manufacturer's are making the prep that comes out of the tire pretty quickly. I can have my tires down in the low 40s, next week it's back up in the high 50s. Still smells like prep just lost my durometer reading
 
When we go to a Burris race, we take as many or more tires with us as if we go to a Maxxis, Vega, Hoosier, open race.
In fact, we take more Burris tires of different tread depths, different profiles, different spring rates - even on a 33A only rule. The good thing is, that without any internal in them, they are not useless afterwards (even if we did not run them.)
With Burris, there are so many different cut profiles that simply aren't available with thin rubber tires.

With Maxxis, most guys are cutting minimally if at all. Scuffing, curing, internal rolling, re-rolling, etc. The flip side of this argument is: What is your time worth at that point?


A quart of prep is approx. 15% of a set of sticker tires and lasts several nights if used properly.
I'd suggest that while prep may actually save a local racer money using a specific set (ex. you can make bite in a tire chemically that should have been done on a lathe), it can also cost you a set (ex. wasted a set with goat or getting them too soft.)

The one set rule does help even the field as far as losses though...you are only going to kill ONE set (worst case scenario.)

Maybe something that was missed, or needs clarified in the original question, is:
Are you trying to be "competitive" or just there to have fun?
HUGE difference in tire costs, no matter what tire rule you throw at it.

There is no easy answer to all of this. It is interesting to see everyone's "solution" to fix karting, similarly to sitting at the local diner @ 5am and hearing all the locals "fix" our country. :)


-----
🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
31 years of service to the karting industry
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
 
CarlsonMotorsports said:
When we go to a Burris race, we take as many or more tires with us as if we go to a Maxxis, Vega, Hoosier, open race.
In fact, we take more Burris tires of different tread depths, different profiles, different spring rates - even on a 33A only rule. The good thing is, that without any internal in them, they are not useless afterwards (even if we did not run them.)
With Burris, there are so many different cut profiles that simply aren't available with thin rubber tires.

With Maxxis, most guys are cutting minimally if at all. Scuffing, curing, internal rolling, re-rolling, etc. The flip side of this argument is: What is your time worth at that point?


A quart of prep is approx. 15% of a set of sticker tires and lasts several nights if used properly.
I'd suggest that while prep may actually save a local racer money using a specific set (ex. you can make bite in a tire chemically that should have been done on a lathe), it can also cost you a set (ex. wasted a set with goat or getting them too soft.)

The one set rule does help even the field as far as losses though...you are only going to kill ONE set (worst case scenario.)

Maybe something that was missed, or needs clarified in the original question, is:
Are you trying to be "competitive" or just there to have fun?
HUGE difference in tire costs, no matter what tire rule you throw at it.

There is no easy answer to all of this. It is interesting to see everyone's "solution" to fix karting, similarly to sitting at the local diner @ 5am and hearing all the locals "fix" our country. :)


-----
🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
31 years of service to the karting industry
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
Click to expand...


I think you hit a big thing equal, fair, my words everyone's a champion. It is not easy or quick to become a champion. Out of 9 years in karts 3 were learning. We got good and successful at our time our peak.

Seems the karting has gone to a how can it be fair controlled and restricted to make it equal.

(Golf) Lee Trevino said when we played for money there were no rules. If you were behind a tree move the ball, there's no excuse everyone had the same opportunity because you can move the ball.

Our tires are the same, let people pick what they want and go race. It's over complicated a simple thing. I'd rather pick the wrong tires then say dam I didn't dump the right chemical on it or in it.

Only thing the tech barn needs to know is motors, restrictor plates, carbs n fuel.
 
CarlsonMotorsports said:
When we go to a Burris race, we take as many or more tires with us as if we go to a Maxxis, Vega, Hoosier, open race.
In fact, we take more Burris tires of different tread depths, different profiles, different spring rates - even on a 33A only rule. The good thing is, that without any internal in them, they are not useless afterwards (even if we did not run them.)
With Burris, there are so many different cut profiles that simply aren't available with thin rubber tires.

With Maxxis, most guys are cutting minimally if at all. Scuffing, curing, internal rolling, re-rolling, etc. The flip side of this argument is: What is your time worth at that point?


A quart of prep is approx. 15% of a set of sticker tires and lasts several nights if used properly.
I'd suggest that while prep may actually save a local racer money using a specific set (ex. you can make bite in a tire chemically that should have been done on a lathe), it can also cost you a set (ex. wasted a set with goat or getting them too soft.)

The one set rule does help even the field as far as losses though...you are only going to kill ONE set (worst case scenario.)

Maybe something that was missed, or needs clarified in the original question, is:
Are you trying to be "competitive" or just there to have fun?
HUGE difference in tire costs, no matter what tire rule you throw at it.

There is no easy answer to all of this. It is interesting to see everyone's "solution" to fix karting, similarly to sitting at the local diner @ 5am and hearing all the locals "fix" our country. :)


-----
🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
31 years of service to the karting industry
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
Click to expand...

We ran old tires for years not weeks with prep homebrew and it lasted. The tires lasted had bite and we won a lot. Also open tire rule.

In 9 years we never flipped a single tire, unless I flipped the kart lol
 
@racing promotor hmm... my vote would be toward costs... but I don't have any data to back that up. It would be interesting to see what the median expense is on tires, tire prep, and equipment. I know of people 10+ sets of 33s with various cuts, preps, etc..

Personally, I'm not willing to spend a bunch of money on tires and prep. We are just starting this year and will have one set of 11s and 22s for our local track (@flatrunspeedway).
 
Ted Hamilton said:
Prep costs money and time, regardless of whether it's one brand tire or open tire.
But with open tire, I know I can show up anywhere and be legal...
Click to expand...
Looks like you run road karts... curious...do you guys do as much with tire prep and buying tires as dirt racing?
 
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