Track Tac

Just for Fun, While the topic is " HOT " let's debate prep.

mddalesio said:
Looks like you run road karts... curious...do you guys do as much with tire prep and buying tires as dirt racing?
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No. Some say a few prep tires for the road (sprint) racing, but I would say 95% do not. If they do it must be some odorless stuff because there are hundreds of racers at a national event and I have never smelled prep and the tires being mounted still have wrappers and stickers.

Now a national level, you practice 5 or 6 times on friday. The top teams will use 3-5 sets there, plus depending on rules, 1-2 sets the rest of the weekend as they are barcoded and scanned after every time on the track starting with qualifying. At a local level at say PittRace, 2-3 sets for a 10 race series is what most use, some maybe 4 or 5.
 
racing promotor said:
This is part of why I said just for fun, it's funny to see how quick everyone gets off topic lol We'll eventually get to question that covers everyone's point of view but for now. Bumpy is the only 1 that gave an answer.
Under the proposed setting would allowing prep save you money ? or Cost you more money ?
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Saves me, I only use 4 or 5 different preps
JoshuaGuiher said:
Alright, costs because of how much time it costs me to prep, or to pay someone to prep.
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Can't count your labor in a hobby, dont believe me ask the IRS
 
XXX#40 said:
Saves me, I only use 4 or 5 different preps

Can't count your labor in a hobby, dont believe me ask the IRS
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Ha, that's a whole other subject on the hobby stuff. If you require me to have a PUC number because my kid enters a race where someone wins $50, I'm not a hobby.
 
mddalesio said:
Looks like you run road karts... curious...do you guys do as much with tire prep and buying tires as dirt racing?
Click to expand...

NO. Almost no prep, unless people are doing internal during the week. Tire stretching goes on so that a "variable gear ratio" effect occurs... I've done dirt unlimited (kinda') and asphalt oval and asphalt sprint. I bought Maxxis when they first came out mainstream, 1995. Orange and baby blue compounds, HG3's, IIRC.
 
FYI, no road racers don't prep. We generally want the kart as free as possible. On the slower classes, eg: Animal, 206, etc, new tires actually are a bit slower then tires with a few heat cycles on them. Faster stuff, eg: 125 shifters, 250 Super Karts, have trouble getting a set of tires to last a half hour race. Even the 125 Tag karts will use up a set of tires in a two day event or about 1 1/2 hours of track time. I mean they are worn out. When we ran the 250, we figured a set of tires each day if we intended to run at the front.
Sprints, which we don't do a lot of, I doubt they prep at all. Especially at the national level. As a track rubbers in, you'll be looking to free it up all the time. At the local level, you can adjust the euro karts to the point they always work or nearly so. Prepping I suspect would add grip you just don't want in either sprints or road racing.
Just my observation from an outsiders perspective, it appears in "general" most would prefer not to prep? But prepping has started, so now everyone's stuck with it? That's a tough one to be sure. How about the chemical safety of the prep solutions? Has anyone ever put together a set of MSDS's for each of the prep ingredients, and sat down to evaluate how dangerous the stuff is. I mean, anything which softens tires can't be all that nice. I'm a retired lab rat, so chemical safety is always something I think about.
Clark Gaynor Sr.
 
Ted Hamilton said:
NO. Almost no prep, unless people are doing internal during the week. Tire stretching goes on so that a "variable gear ratio" effect occurs... I've done dirt unlimited (kinda') and asphalt oval and asphalt sprint. I bought Maxxis when they first came out mainstream, 1995. Orange and baby blue compounds, HG3's, IIRC.
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We had the old hg4s, prepped and ran on dirt. Didn't realize that in early 2000's we were doing what is today known as the normal.
 
racing promotor said:
Ok let's change it up, your in an area where all your local Friday and Saturday night racing is on Burris only tires, your running a Burris only series at 5 different tracks, does the fact that prep is allowed in the end save you money ? Or cost you more money ?
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I can't see how anyone would feel prep in the end cost more than if we couldn't use it, sure it cost money to buy and time to use, but at the end of the season to race 3 different local tracks it ends up cheaper than buying a bunch more tires and wheels, by the way they take time to mount as well.
 
XXX#40 said:
Like I said ask the IRS, it's a hobby until you can prove otherwise
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I believe he's talking about issues with the DOT on vehicles over 10,000gvwr.
The DOT (in many states, PA & IN included) are pulling over trucks and trailers and busting them for not having licenses for over the road profit...Yes, karting IS included. It's totally ridiculous, I know.
With the IRS, a hobby is one that you cannot write off more than you make (easy enough in most forms of racing.)
For the DOT, however, if you, or what you are hauling, has "increased value," whether that's in winnings or by receiving a blue ribbon on show cattle, you must have their new credentials. From what I understand, PA started a non-professional CDL designed for just this case -- RV'ers, fishermen, horse farmers, racers, etc are all falling into this new category. In Indiana, we don't have the separate cdl required, but ANY vehicle over 10,000 gvwr, (most serious kart racers are,) is subject to new regulations that went into effect last year. No motorhome, "not for hire," non-cdl, "rv use only exemptions" if you are pulling a trailer with anything in it that makes money or has increased value due to you taking it someplace.

The DOT could care less what the IRS classifies your racing as.
It's goofy, I know -- what do you expect when we allow government to continue to grow and have more power?

How's that for random and off topic?

-----
🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
31 years of service to the karting industry
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
 
Yes, all that Brian. PA is a weird state, just ask Jac Haudenschild about the PA DOT. Just giving X a hard time, but I write off what I can.
 
Results from yesterdays Poll:
TirePrepPoll.PNG
 
JoshuaGuiher said:
Yes, all that Brian. PA is a weird state, just ask Jac Haudenschild about the PA DOT. Just giving X a hard time, but I write off what I can.
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I live in VA. cant get much weirder than here, we still have to have our vehicles inspected yearly, and yes Brian I have a class B CDL , and have had since the late 80's when I was grandfathered in to the new federal database, and I am and always was a nonprofessional driver just DOT laws
 
AvgJoeRacing said:
I would say being your using burris it would better. 11,22,33s ect. In your case prep saves. Dude to not having to make major duro changes.

Is it fair to say that with the uprising costs that people are purchasing VS the homebrew as we often call it has increased the cost? How far does a QT of prep really go on the outside, it doesn't go far on the inside.

$25 inside prep , can do 10 tires at 90cc = 3 ounces per tire 32ounces to QT. Is $2.50 per tire. Now question is how long does it stay in and effective? When should it be rerolled.

Seems the manufacturer's are making the prep that comes out of the tire pretty quickly. I can have my tires down in the low 40s, next week it's back up in the high 50s. Still smells like prep just lost my durometer reading
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For what it's worth, the guy who runs one of my karts is a small time prep dealer and another friend who travels with us sells another brand. We have only put inside prep in one set of tires, and expected it to cut a lot off the life of the tire. First time we went to use them it rained out. Was going to run them a month later and it rained again. The guy who prepped them worked really hard each time to keep life in the tires and because of this its still a usable set of tires.
We dont squander prep just because we have it. I'd say we buy a quart of something every 3 races for the karts my son and I race. Im thinking the 2 tire preppers we run with use about the same. We do use some various paint thinners too in cleaning up the tires and getting them ready to use again.
 
CarlsonMotorsports said:
I believe he's talking about issues with the DOT on vehicles over 10,000gvwr.
The DOT (in many states, PA & IN included) are pulling over trucks and trailers and busting them for not having licenses for over the road profit...Yes, karting IS included. It's totally ridiculous, I know.
With the IRS, a hobby is one that you cannot write off more than you make (easy enough in most forms of racing.)
For the DOT, however, if you, or what you are hauling, has "increased value," whether that's in winnings or by receiving a blue ribbon on show cattle, you must have their new credentials. From what I understand, PA started a non-professional CDL designed for just this case -- RV'ers, fishermen, horse farmers, racers, etc are all falling into this new category. In Indiana, we don't have the separate cdl required, but ANY vehicle over 10,000 gvwr, (most serious kart racers are,) is subject to new regulations that went into effect last year. No motorhome, "not for hire," non-cdl, "rv use only exemptions" if you are pulling a trailer with anything in it that makes money or has increased value due to you taking it someplace.

The DOT could care less what the IRS classifies your racing as.
It's goofy, I know -- what do you expect when we allow government to continue to grow and have more power?

How's that for random and off topic?

-----
🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
31 years of service to the karting industry
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
Click to expand...
Just another way for politicians to get more taxes. and fines
 
CarlsonMotorsports said:
I believe he's talking about issues with the DOT on vehicles over 10,000gvwr.
The DOT (in many states, PA & IN included) are pulling over trucks and trailers and busting them for not having licenses for over the road profit...Yes, karting IS included. It's totally ridiculous, I know.
With the IRS, a hobby is one that you cannot write off more than you make (easy enough in most forms of racing.)
For the DOT, however, if you, or what you are hauling, has "increased value," whether that's in winnings or by receiving a blue ribbon on show cattle, you must have their new credentials. From what I understand, PA started a non-professional CDL designed for just this case -- RV'ers, fishermen, horse farmers, racers, etc are all falling into this new category. In Indiana, we don't have the separate cdl required, but ANY vehicle over 10,000 gvwr, (most serious kart racers are,) is subject to new regulations that went into effect last year. No motorhome, "not for hire," non-cdl, "rv use only exemptions" if you are pulling a trailer with anything in it that makes money or has increased value due to you taking it someplace.

The DOT could care less what the IRS classifies your racing as.
It's goofy, I know -- what do you expect when we allow government to continue to grow and have more power?

How's that for random and off topic?

-----
🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
31 years of service to the karting industry
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
Click to expand...

I've been told Federal highway rules trump state law and there are a lot of exceptions for racing including trailer tow vehicle length. In general if you know the laws and get pulled over by the State you can tell them to go pound salt with their State regulations. Doesn't mean you won't get hassled but racers only need to follow federal rules which are easier on racers.

did I say it doesn't mean they won't hassle you? ... :)

edit: Same with over the road Buses. You see buses all the time hawling butt over the speed limit. The reason most all are left alone is if their stopped the Driver of the Bus is the same as a ship Captain. If they have to detain or stop the bus driver from driving, the police instantly become totally responsible for all the passengers and expenses incurred by the passengers as a result of the police stop. Yep the police can end up paying for hotel, food and even a missed concert if that's why the passengers hired the bus. Plus if a road side incident occurs after the police take control of the bus/ship, there also responsible if they did stupid things which put the passengers in harms way.
 
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