TS Motorsports
Member
is it just me or does it seem like karting in general especially unlimited and open class racing is dead?
karting dead?
- Thread starter TS Motorsports
- Start date
I'm with Ben. I think it's just "pockets" of areas. The biggest thing, in my opinion, that we here in the NE do that keeps everyone going is working together. With 4 regions in the NE area, there are plenty of karts. Actually there are almost 20 UAS paid member but probably nearly 50 karts. But our admins work TOGETHER very diligently to make schedules that do not take away from the other regions. Even sharing events, which gives us those 20+ count numbers. A "low" count night for most of our NE regions is 10ish. From what I see on social media and such, the SE is doing quite well also. I think the "idea" of open racing on a weekly basis at a single track for points is dying off. But let's face it, most of us probably prefer UAS because we know we can look at a "master" schedule and pretty much go anywhere in the country and race with a fantastic group of people. And those of us that enjoy doing that, usually, find racing at 1 track all season gets kinda boring and is no longer really challenging.
Tonypowerkartsupply
Member
karting is dead all over. Why? I can explain exactly, year back you had 2 major sanctions. WKA and IKF. You could pick up and travel all over the country with the same rules. Today you cant even travel with in a 2 hour distance with out finding out what rules the track has. I just got back into some road course racing lo206. I raced at AVON for a akra event. None of the locals showed because they race bridgestones...Then I was going to race at Thompson. They race hoosiers, well at least the 206 engine rules are the same. Weights were different.
There is 3 tracks with in a 2 hour distance from me. Every track runs different engine package.
Poughkeepsie= Flatheads
Wall Stadium= Lo206
Pomfret= clones & Animals
When I get a new customer and set them up the biggest question is where else can I race? well you have 3 tracks to choose from, but all different engines...WTF I'm sorry, I don't know why.
I love to travel and race indoors. Not only do I need to find out what engine they run, but is it AKRA or WKA or NKA? its just a big mess.
I race Legend cars now and love it. I can travel anywhere in the USA and roll up with my car. Same rules, that's why INEX is such a success and that's a big part of why the cheapest form of racing GOKARTS is on a decline.
The more racers you have the more people will get hooked and get into different classes such as UAS and opens.
There is 3 tracks with in a 2 hour distance from me. Every track runs different engine package.
Poughkeepsie= Flatheads
Wall Stadium= Lo206
Pomfret= clones & Animals
When I get a new customer and set them up the biggest question is where else can I race? well you have 3 tracks to choose from, but all different engines...WTF I'm sorry, I don't know why.
I love to travel and race indoors. Not only do I need to find out what engine they run, but is it AKRA or WKA or NKA? its just a big mess.
I race Legend cars now and love it. I can travel anywhere in the USA and roll up with my car. Same rules, that's why INEX is such a success and that's a big part of why the cheapest form of racing GOKARTS is on a decline.
The more racers you have the more people will get hooked and get into different classes such as UAS and opens.
paulkish
old fart
"I just got back into some road course racing lo206. I raced at AVON for a akra event. None of the locals showed because they race bridgestones...Then I was going to race at Thompson. They race hoosiers, well at least the 206 engine rules are the same. Weights were different.
There is 3 tracks with in a 2 hour distance from me. Every track runs different engine package.
Poughkeepsie= Flatheads
Wall Stadium= Lo206
Pomfret= clones & Animals"
IMHO that IS the problem hurting karting and car racing. The problem is because of promoters not getting together because of being either hard nosed or not caring about their customers taking the best under the table deal they can get and >vendors< . period.
Bull S things to make a buck by promoters and vendors is what hurts. This is the UAS thread and the complete opposite of it is why the UAS was able to in a short time reach across the country welcoming not limiting.
A perfect example is the totally unethical way someone recently attacked the UAS on the UAS area of this site looking to take UAS racers for 2cycle only racing. That's the kind of crap which hurts karting. The promoters don't care how they split and hurt kart racing and car racing, so long as there's a buck in it for them.
Racers go to race and ALL the division and hurting of karting and car racing IS BECAUSE OF PROMOTERS AND VENDORS. Racers have no reason to split limited amounts of entries among different tracks and classes, except it when it can give them a better chance to win.
That's the bait to HOOK racers into opening up their pocket books by promoters and vendors. That's the HOOK so obvious being used and answered by racers being stolen by a promoter to race 2cycles here on this site in this UAS area. All I read is hey sounds great, take my money, I ain't good enough anyway to run with the rest so I'll anti up my pocket change for a better chance at a trophy and bragging rights.
There is 3 tracks with in a 2 hour distance from me. Every track runs different engine package.
Poughkeepsie= Flatheads
Wall Stadium= Lo206
Pomfret= clones & Animals"
IMHO that IS the problem hurting karting and car racing. The problem is because of promoters not getting together because of being either hard nosed or not caring about their customers taking the best under the table deal they can get and >vendors< . period.
Bull S things to make a buck by promoters and vendors is what hurts. This is the UAS thread and the complete opposite of it is why the UAS was able to in a short time reach across the country welcoming not limiting.
A perfect example is the totally unethical way someone recently attacked the UAS on the UAS area of this site looking to take UAS racers for 2cycle only racing. That's the kind of crap which hurts karting. The promoters don't care how they split and hurt kart racing and car racing, so long as there's a buck in it for them.
Racers go to race and ALL the division and hurting of karting and car racing IS BECAUSE OF PROMOTERS AND VENDORS. Racers have no reason to split limited amounts of entries among different tracks and classes, except it when it can give them a better chance to win.
That's the bait to HOOK racers into opening up their pocket books by promoters and vendors. That's the HOOK so obvious being used and answered by racers being stolen by a promoter to race 2cycles here on this site in this UAS area. All I read is hey sounds great, take my money, I ain't good enough anyway to run with the rest so I'll anti up my pocket change for a better chance at a trophy and bragging rights.
KY had a good group of RWYB karts forming earlier this year. Usually 10-15 karts per race. But now they have split that group into 6 separate classes (limited, small block open, stock appearing, 125cc or less 2-stroke, jr open, rwyb). Will be interesting to see what their kart counts look like in the future and to see how many racers go somewhere else to race with more than 3 karts. If only there were some existing and well established rules that incorporated a wide range of engines with weight compensations...
MikeleoneCT
Member
On top of the differing rules, which I agree 100%, I'll add:
Fewer kids are getting in/staying in karting because:
Too few fathers have any mechanical skill (or any manly skill at all for that matter) and you need some to race
Money is very tight among those who have any mechanical skill (we're in an economic depression despite what you see in the news)
INEX is pulling the serious kids into Bandeleros and Legends cars. This is a big drain on the 12-16 yr olds who don't come back to karting
Fewer kids are getting in/staying in karting because:
Too few fathers have any mechanical skill (or any manly skill at all for that matter) and you need some to race
Money is very tight among those who have any mechanical skill (we're in an economic depression despite what you see in the news)
INEX is pulling the serious kids into Bandeleros and Legends cars. This is a big drain on the 12-16 yr olds who don't come back to karting
Brian Montgomery
Member
I'm surprised no one has said anything about the tire and chemical cost. Its a whole nother full time job keeping up with the tire and chemical deal which sucks all the fun out of it. Sure we need to spend time in the shop but preferably not with toxic chemicals.jmo
Paul I think the intent was to capture all the 2 cycle racers who are racing due to can't compete with big money teams. Can't run a 116 on a 3/8 mile against the Jawas and win. No one intended to hurt karting, I was all for it and was hoping it would fly, but doesn't look like it will
paulkish
old fart
"Paul I think the intent was to capture all the 2 cycle racers who are racing due to can't compete with big money teams."
I hear ya tell me about it. ... and this low money team member is going to get up and drive 6 hours in the morning to and from Jegs in Columbus Ohio because nobody else has the head gasket we need to hopefully be able to race Saturday.
I got to do it because we can't compete with Big Money Teams who have 4 and 5 $50,000 spare engines sitting on the shelf, when we have to struggle for the cost of a head gasket.
But ya know when we can were racing. I guess I could gather up all the other back markers and make a deal with some po dunk track somewhere so we can have a chance to race against the rest of the toads. Heck were as good as any back marker slug in the back and would have a chance to win. Might even win the points, get a year end award and have us written up in the record book somewhere.
Capture all the 2cycle racers off the UAS and then the big money guys ain't go nobody to race with. Ya know what? The Big Money Racers will throw on a 2cycle, out spend you anyway, get the trophy the win and those in the back will still be in the back.
The happy promoter who killed the UAS and split racing in the area will be the only one smiling with the smiling winning Big Money 2cycle Racers, while counting the few bucks made and passing out the wins to the Big Money Racers.
I hear ya tell me about it. ... and this low money team member is going to get up and drive 6 hours in the morning to and from Jegs in Columbus Ohio because nobody else has the head gasket we need to hopefully be able to race Saturday.
I got to do it because we can't compete with Big Money Teams who have 4 and 5 $50,000 spare engines sitting on the shelf, when we have to struggle for the cost of a head gasket.
But ya know when we can were racing. I guess I could gather up all the other back markers and make a deal with some po dunk track somewhere so we can have a chance to race against the rest of the toads. Heck were as good as any back marker slug in the back and would have a chance to win. Might even win the points, get a year end award and have us written up in the record book somewhere.
Capture all the 2cycle racers off the UAS and then the big money guys ain't go nobody to race with. Ya know what? The Big Money Racers will throw on a 2cycle, out spend you anyway, get the trophy the win and those in the back will still be in the back.
The happy promoter who killed the UAS and split racing in the area will be the only one smiling with the smiling winning Big Money 2cycle Racers, while counting the few bucks made and passing out the wins to the Big Money Racers.
Honestly, you can "whatever" all you want. Yes, budget has a LOT to do with the teams that are out front. And, a guy with a 116 that isn't anywhere close to the weight limit will not keep up on a 3/8 mile. But don't get it twisted. That same guy ain't gonna keep up on 1/10th mile bull rings either. When low budget racers put in their homework, they can be very competitive. Personally, I show up at the track with typically 3 sets of tires, 3 cans of prep, and 1 kart and Motor. Most guys in this area do. So if anyone wants to be fast, they must really put in the effort. Not just blame money and rules. Everyone has the same rules and opportunity. The guy that wants to get into UAS Racing and weighs 200# should not even be considering anything smaller than a 140-150 2 stroke because of the weight breaks. That's the idea, right? Use the rules to your advantage rather than spend money on a great deal for a small motor. If you pay $1500 or so for a fresh 116-125, you could spend that same money on a 450/250 MX and be much closer to a reasonable weight.
Tire costs are what they are. Sure there are budget tires out there and if everyone was on the same tire with a duro rule and no prep, it would make a much different playing field. But that's just another rule to complain about and enforce. But you could bet that the fast guys on the $1000 sets of tires are most likely still gonna be the fast guys on $100 set of tires. Because they understand and can work more with chassis Dynamics.
So the thought that Karting is dying because of these things or that having separate classes is the answer, is what is hurting overall numbers. Working together, sharing information, helping each other be better(at least in UAS) has just grown numbers in our area. 6 years ago having averages of 5-6 UAS karts has grown into having a great brotherhood of averaging 15-20 karts. So for all the doubters and nay Sayers, stop with the complaining, start enjoying just having the opportunity to race with some great people, then the speed will come along.
PD Engines
Member
Just go race. Stop trying to fine tune the rules to slant the field in your direction.
Work on your kart, and tires.......not so much on the forum. (We DO love the forum, however!)
Work on your kart, and tires.......not so much on the forum. (We DO love the forum, however!)
If anything open racing has been growing here in Ky Chris...kart counts have been up at most of the tracks around here in Open/RWYB, especially at Lightning Valley for the new KOKA series. Haven't seen you at the track in awhile, bring that kart out and have some fun with us Aug 26th at Clay City, $750 to win RWYB
