Lapped karts

Yeah, that would suck, but still part of racing. I can understand a beginner that’s way off pace getting out of the way, but in the bigger races there’s very few beginners. Sometimes the whole field is within a half second or so. Fields get spread out, the leader should have no trouble getting by an experienced racer without incident. Like I said, if a guy can pass his way to the front, why can’t he make a pass on a lapper? Just doesn’t seem that hard. Not being argumentative just looks obvious to me.
 
I grew up racing on a 1/10 asphalt oval with bone stock engines, inside rear drive only. You'd better believe we learned to deal with traffic, anticipate, learn to use the slower karts as a pick, and GENERALLY LEARN THE SKILL OF RACING. Dump and run isn't racing. Forcing others to be regulated out of your way isn't racing. Every kart out there is equally entitled to their place on track. They paid the same entry fee you did. Now some of them should also go and practice before racing... that's a different issue. Part of the problem MAY be track prep, but as long as there are 2 lanes of usable surface and the slower kart drivers have been instructed and taught to hold their line, it's the leaders' job to predict, plan, and pass.
 
I grew up racing on a 1/10 asphalt oval with bone stock engines, inside rear drive only. You'd better believe we learned to deal with traffic, anticipate, learn to use the slower karts as a pick, and GENERALLY LEARN THE SKILL OF RACING. Dump and run isn't racing. Forcing others to be regulated out of your way isn't racing. Every kart out there is equally entitled to their place on track. They paid the same entry fee you did. Now some of them should also go and practice before racing... that's a different issue. Part of the problem MAY be track prep, but as long as there are 2 lanes of usable surface and the slower kart drivers have been instructed and taught to hold their line, it's the leaders' job to predict, plan, and pass.
Unfortunately what happens at the "top" levels of the sport is what everyone else tries to do. That part also comes down to how the track manages rough driving. My local track doesn't use the black enough, and then once they do its always a big issue because "Well last week he did the same to me..." In my opinion, Set em up, and pass them. If you caught them in a 8 lap heat or 15 lap feature, its obvious you are quite a bit quicker than they are. Set them up and pass.

To further prove my point, look at how many dirty slide jobs get thrown at your local big car track because they see it on Flo Sports every week.
 
Interesting, very interesting.

Hold your line!!! The faster karts are just that, faster. If your faster, you better know how to pass, cleanly. If you can't pass, that's your fault. Not the slower kart. If you can't pass, you must not be that fast.

Different racing organizations use the blue flag with the diagonal orange stripe in different ways. Even kart organizations in different countries use it differently. Some use it as a "move over flag" and some use it as a "your about to be overtaken or about to be passed flag". If you are concerned about it, ask in the drivers meeting. That is where it should be established.

The last thing you need is someone looking around making funny moves to get out of the way. That will just get yourself and others hurt.

And if your gonna wine about it, you must not be that good. We "racers" must show respect and good sportsmanship. Especially for the younger racers to look up to.

Brian #89
 
so how's it your fault that you get unlucky enough to have to pass a lapped kart in the apex of turn? just curious cause every track ive ever seen is there is no where to pass them on the upper groove of apex after about 5laps after they blow track off.
Just curious?
wouldn't it be respectful to racers to stay on the upper line "since some say you can be up there" when the take over flag is waved at you when you are half or more a second off the pace? That would be something the younger racers could look up to. But maybe I'm wrong about that being respectful.

Now I get a tenth off the pace its not going to be much of a problem being a lapped kart, but im more talking about half a second or more off the pace is when I start seeing the safety/ concern of the lapped kart. Definitely interesting to see what everyone's take on lapped karts is.
 
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Thought about this for a while. Some may or may not like my thoughts but that’s what they are “my thoughts”.

For big money races. There should be a rule set in the drivers Meeting. Move over or pull off. If you go a lap down at a money race, with the level of the pros at those races. Your race is over! Sorry! But for the normal every weekend racers that should not be the case. I’ve been in both positions as most of you all have too. Something you are put in positions that just suck! If your the leader or the lapper. Being the lapper you are already in a spot. Be it you missed the tires , gear ,..... but you are just learning. And yes we are all still learning. Pro to amateur, all. As the leader. Sometimes you catch a lapper just right, get by them, and now have breathing room. Other times the total opposite. It takes skill at the craft and a little luck. And sometimes luck isn’t always good. That’s racing. If you can’t deal with or accept that things in racing don’t always go your way racing is not for you. Humbling sport!
 
There have been many money races here where drivers are instructed at the drivers meeting once you get lapped pull off the next lap, plus there still getting the move over flag give the line to the leader.
 
Thought about this for a while. Some may or may not like my thoughts but that’s what they are “my thoughts”.

For big money races. There should be a rule set in the drivers Meeting. Move over or pull off. If you go a lap down at a money race, with the level of the pros at those races. Your race is over! Sorry! But for the normal every weekend racers that should not be the case. I’ve been in both positions as most of you all have too. Something you are put in positions that just suck! If your the leader or the lapper. Being the lapper you are already in a spot. Be it you missed the tires , gear ,..... but you are just learning. And yes we are all still learning. Pro to amateur, all. As the leader. Sometimes you catch a lapper just right, get by them, and now have breathing room. Other times the total opposite. It takes skill at the craft and a little luck. And sometimes luck isn’t always good. That’s racing. If you can’t deal with or accept that things in racing don’t always go your way racing is not for you. Humbling sport!
definitely respect your thoughts! Quick question, whats thw point of having the move over flag/take over flag beside the flagman? Maybe they should just change it to a flag for the leader letting him know that he's getting ready to get messed up cause it's only a one groove corner track! That's for a Saturday night show? section 10.8- 10.8.7 says lapped kart gives right of way to faster karts. 10.6.5 says give right away not to imede faster karts. Now that's NKA that most races follow big shows or little shows, "I think" And god we all knows what assuming does! So another good question is since thats what section 10.8.7 and 10.6?5 says in the NKA book, does that mean anything else in that book can be determined by luck or feelings and not by what's black and white?
 
Just as I thought would happen. A smart —- response. You must have been on the short end of that stick. Sorry it effected your finish. It sucks being in that spot and a lapper costs you the race. Been there. But on the other hand have you ever benefited from a lapped kart? Did you feel the same way then? Like I said “drivers Meeting”.( I wasn’t clear in first post.) Should set the rule. The flag is for a reason and should be use and fallowed. But on the other hand a lapper making a move to get out of the way sometimes makes the situation worse. That’s where luck trumps black & white. No disrespect intended. I feel for you and the situation. Like I said been there.
 
Didn't realize it would come off smart--- to you. Yes its happened both ways to my driver, but 95% of the time it goes the worse end of the stick. Would just be nice it would be one way and discussed at every drivers meeting, instead of this track does it this way and that track does it their way but yet follows NKA rules on everything else the do. I guess untill everyone gets on the same page with rules and procedures we will all have our opinions on things and we all know how they are! And like always no disrespect intended.
 
The situation : Give right of way .
Here in is a problem : Interpretation . does that mean ; get off the track , change your line , or do not impede ?
Both the lead Driver and the driver being over taken have some responsibility in the situation .
The timing of when the flag is displayed can have some input as well .
 
The flag for the leader wasn’t a smart come back? And on your reaction i’m Glad I could make you laugh. Adding the flags and what they mean to the drivers Meeting would be nothing but this is how it is and this is how it will be done. That way everyone knows what is expected. As far as all tracks being on the same page well that is not easy. Just like engine rules from track to track. Like I said before I feel for you and the position that you and your drive got put in, I’ve been there. It sucks! Knowing how and what was expected before the green flag may have changed the situation.
 
The flag for the leader wasn’t a smart come back? And on your reaction i’m Glad I could make you laugh. Adding the flags and what they mean to the drivers Meeting would be nothing but this is how it is and this is how it will be done. That way everyone knows what is expected. As far as all tracks being on the same page well that is not easy. Just like engine rules from track to track. Like I said before I feel for you and the position that you and your drive got put in, I’ve been there. It sucks! Knowing how and what was expected before the green flag may have changed the situation.
The flag comment wasn't really meant for a come back, but more of a suggestion or question. And yes everyone needs a good laugh every now and then so thanks for that! I think we can both agree things could get better with better communication from track to track!And I appreciate that you care about our bad luck. And most definitely if the track would tell the drivers how they interpret the rule set for lapped cars and the flag interpretation things might have been different.
 
definitely respect your thoughts! Quick question, whats thw point of having the move over flag/take over flag beside the flagman? Maybe they should just change it to a flag for the leader letting him know that he's getting ready to get messed up cause it's only a one groove corner track! That's for a Saturday night show? section 10.8- 10.8.7 says lapped kart gives right of way to faster karts. 10.6.5 says give right away not to imede faster karts. Now that's NKA that most races follow big shows or little shows, "I think" And god we all knows what assuming does! So another good question is since thats what section 10.8.7 and 10.6?5 says in the NKA book, does that mean anything else in that book can be determined by luck or feelings and not by what's black and white?
10.6.5 says kart getting lapped should maintain position so in order to maintain position that means don’t move correct, otherwise you are not maintaining your position. Just curious as it says in 10.8.7 right of way not preferred line and the driver will point which side of the kart they want faster karts to pass on also so your argument is what exactly? 10.6.3 to 10.6.3.5 would be some really good reading also. As it pertains to the right of the driver (not leader) to their preferred line entering corner, thru apex and exiting corner. So when you read and use the whole rule and not just pieces of each it sure sounds different than move high out of the way in the corner and let the leader pass where he wants. If it meant move high or low on the track or go high in the corner in the marbles it would say that. The only thing it says about corners is the driver has right of line so.....you were saying? There is no interpretation it is laid out in black and white so no feelings involved other than the ones crying against the rules as stated in.....black and white.
 
10.6.5 says kart getting lapped should maintain position so in order to maintain position that means don’t move correct, otherwise you are not maintaining your position. Just curious as it says in 10.8.7 right of way not preferred line and the driver will point which side of the kart they want faster karts to pass on also so your argument is what exactly? 10.6.3 to 10.6.3.5 would be some really good reading also. As it pertains to the right of the driver (not leader) to their preferred line entering corner, thru apex and exiting corner. So when you read and use the whole rule and not just pieces of each it sure sounds different than move high out of the way in the corner and let the leader pass where he wants. If it meant move high or low on the track or go high in the corner in the marbles it would say that. The only thing it says about corners is the driver has right of line so.....you were saying? There is no interpretation it is laid out in black and white so no feelings involved other than the ones crying against the rules as stated in.....black and white.
You are correct it say to maintain line when getting over took, and as for 10.6.5 that cancles out the 10.6.3 but I definitely could be wrong about that! cause god knows Im wrong about alot of things, and then 10.8.7 right of way I interpret that as the right of way of the leader, which would make the preferred line the right away considering that is more than likely the way the leader has been running foe x amount of laps but like before, that's how i interrupt it and we all know how opinions are! definitely no disrespect on my opinion! cause thats what i like about discussion, sometimes it makes me look at things differently for the good and bad!
 
You are correct it say to maintain line when getting over took, and as for 10.6.5 that cancles out the 10.6.3 but I definitely could be wrong about that! cause god knows Im wrong about alot of things, and then 10.8.7 right of way I interpret that as the right of way of the leader, which would make the preferred line the right away considering that is more than likely the way the leader has been running foe x amount of laps but like before, that's how i interrupt it and we all know how opinions are! definitely no disrespect on my opinion! cause thats what i like about discussion, sometimes it makes me look at things differently for the good and bad!
It doesn’t say maintain line when getting over. It says maintain position, nothing about move over. The definition of which would mean

Definition of maintain​


: to cause (something) to exist or continue without changing
: to keep (something) in good condition by making repairs, correcting problems, etc.
: to continue having or doing (something)

There is no interpretation needed as there is a definition to define it from being interpreted as meaning something else. If we interpret everything then we could never be disqualified from a race because our interpretation of that rule could be different. The rules can’t cancel each other out so people can choose which fits their need. It also says the lapped kart will point which side they want the faster kart to pass on. So now they can always point to the outside and be within the rules.
 
It doesn’t say maintain line when getting over. It says maintain position, nothing about move over. The definition of which would mean

Definition of maintain​


: to cause (something) to exist or continue without changing
: to keep (something) in good condition by making repairs, correcting problems, etc.
: to continue having or doing (something)

There is no interpretation needed as there is a definition to define it from being interpreted as meaning something else. If we interpret everything then we could never be disqualified from a race because our interpretation of that rule could be different. The rules can’t cancel each other out so people can choose which fits their need. It also says the lapped kart will point which side they want the faster kart to pass on. So now they can always point to the outside and be within the rules.
you are absolutely right, it say maintain position, and if i look at a track right ,there is a high line and low line correct?, so if lapped kart is high on the straight, why would that lapped kart be on the low line in the turn? since it says maintain position not perferd line. or am I thinking about this wrong again?
and for me saying one rule cancled the other one out, my meaning was that it was talking about a different subject, ' lappes kart not 4th over taking 3rd ect ect, its talking only about a lapped kart so i thought all the other before hand was talking about lead lap karts. And like before thank you for getting me to look at it at a different few points.
 
People generally don’t run a different line in the corner. Everyone runs the bottom. The straight is different. When I first started I would either go high and point low in or out of the corner or go low and point high. I would just burp the throttle once real quick to let them pass and then back to throttle. Either in or out but never in the corner as that is trouble. If someone is running a high line they need to stay there if low same thing but in a corner unless the kart is going to hold a higher line everyone is on the bottom. If there are two lines through a corner then passes become much easier. The biggest concern is in the corner. One line, nobody is going into the marbles. Now back to the line thing. Most are always running the same line so there is usually just one. So if the leader catches you, you are racing to stay on the lead lap and not a lapped kart yet, you don’t become a lapped kart until the leader passes you, so which rule applies in that scenario?
 
Maintain position one could take that to simply mean don't be trying to pass another slow kart( advancing your position ) blocking the groove even more, which is usually the case, I'll stick with I've never heard the blue flag with the yellow stripe call anything other than the MOVE OVER flag, Or corner flaggers pulling there hands towards there chest ( if positioned on the outside of track ), or making a sweeping motion towards the outside of the track ( If positioned on the inside of the track ) to mean anything other than just that move up. I know this that in the end there's only one Interpretation that matters, that's the head flagman ( race director ) and a lot more times than not he's moving you up out of the way.
 
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