ok guys wasn't sure where to look for info on this... but whats the "average" time it takes to learn to run a cnc? I was running manual mill and lath but found a shop that wants me to learn cnc... there "haas" machines... (if I spelt that right?) but the catch is theres a 6-8month make or brake point... is the average guy/girl able to learn these machines that fast?
manual machinest turns cnc machinest
- Thread starter subbietjw
- Start date
Bengert Racing
New member
Haas is the largest builder of CNC machines in the Western World. (side note; They support Kurt Bush and sponser the #41 car.) Haas offers a 2 - 4 yr. college cource to train operators. I would think that since you're already a manual machinest, you already know a large percentage of what they teach. You also already know how to use a computer. If the company says 6 to 8 months to learn the machine, you already have the answer to your question.
My thoughts, for what their worth;
Don't be defeated before you start. You learned how to run a mill and a lath, you can learn a CNC machine too. Never pass up an opportunity to move forward.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
My thoughts, for what their worth;
Don't be defeated before you start. You learned how to run a mill and a lath, you can learn a CNC machine too. Never pass up an opportunity to move forward.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
paulkish
old fart
alvin l nunley
Site Supporter
First off, it's good that you're already a manual machinist. That's how I got started. I think it gave me a big advantage. Knowing how to use a computer is a big advantage.
Are you going to be an operator or a programmer? Is a big difference. An operator just puts the raw material in the holder and punches the buttons. A programmer needs to know software. What software you're going to be using can add to the learning curve. Some of it's really complicated. I learned with Surfcam. It's a licensed CAD/CAM program. I have my own copy that I got when I first started programming. Last time I checked it cost $14,000 for the 3.5 version. That means it can program in 3 axis.
So to start off, I was a proficient manual machinist and a proficient computer user. I love to make things, design things and play with computers. It was like I had died and went to heaven.
I was making and designing parts within a week, with no supervision at all. I was the only machinist where I worked, I had no help from anybody in my company, just some help from the guy we bought the machine from. You get a big head start over me.
It was about 1990 when we got the machine, so things have improved a lot over the last 24 years and it should be easier for you than it was for me.
It depends a lot on you. What do you bring to the table? How much you like it. For me, I loved it.
Being a CNC programmer and machinist is not rocket science, but there is a learning curve. If you have the aptitude and the desire you should have no trouble.
If you have any specific questions, don't hesitate to ask.
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
512 – 630 – 6215
Are you going to be an operator or a programmer? Is a big difference. An operator just puts the raw material in the holder and punches the buttons. A programmer needs to know software. What software you're going to be using can add to the learning curve. Some of it's really complicated. I learned with Surfcam. It's a licensed CAD/CAM program. I have my own copy that I got when I first started programming. Last time I checked it cost $14,000 for the 3.5 version. That means it can program in 3 axis.
So to start off, I was a proficient manual machinist and a proficient computer user. I love to make things, design things and play with computers. It was like I had died and went to heaven.
I was making and designing parts within a week, with no supervision at all. I was the only machinist where I worked, I had no help from anybody in my company, just some help from the guy we bought the machine from. You get a big head start over me.
It was about 1990 when we got the machine, so things have improved a lot over the last 24 years and it should be easier for you than it was for me.
It depends a lot on you. What do you bring to the table? How much you like it. For me, I loved it.
Being a CNC programmer and machinist is not rocket science, but there is a learning curve. If you have the aptitude and the desire you should have no trouble.
If you have any specific questions, don't hesitate to ask.
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
512 – 630 – 6215
as far as I know they just want me to be an operator? making the parts manually I think I could do... but my thing is the controls... I can hardly point n click my home pc... the machine they had me run is my home pc. on drugs an it now looks like the hulk!!! lol I don't want to pass up the chance just not sure I can make that window??? is there a how to book I can get my hands on? I was looking on utube last night but a lot of what I found was way over my head on this... theres lingo n stuff I don't even know what it is... like tool off sets n some others... you don't have that im manual milling... just kind of looking for all the info I can get my hands on...
mikeincoppell
New member
Do not pass this opportunity up!!!! I started my career as a manual machinist and even went through an apprentice program. It was great as I learned all the basics and important stuff about cutting metal that I'm sure you know. Then when I had my car building business I bought a Hurco CNC mill, one about the size of a Bridgeport. I read the book and within a few hours I was making parts, parts I never dreamed I could make.
You know how to cut metal, that's a big plus. Running a CNC machine is a different thought process though. Instead of shoot from the hip like "that speed looks bout' right" you will have to know what speed you want and program it. Same for feeds. But CNC machines have a lot of aids built in now days. Another adjustment is now you have to know your coordinates and where you are and where you want to go. It's still X, Y, & Z but you'll have an origin to work from and everything is based on that origin. For me that was the part that took getting used to.
Now here's the really cool part. Throw your conventional thinking out the window! Let's say you're milling a funny three sided part with radius's in all of the corners. A real ***** to make on a Bridgeport. On a CNC you can cut the blank 1/8-1/4" taller than the part and use that extra bit to hold onto in a conventional mill vice. Do all your funny angles and radius's at one time while holding the part in the vice. Then flip it over and cut the base off. If it's difficult shaped part to hold in a vice or you have more operations to do you can machine a set of soft jaws to the profile and hold the part in them. You would never do that conventionally.
Good luck!
You know how to cut metal, that's a big plus. Running a CNC machine is a different thought process though. Instead of shoot from the hip like "that speed looks bout' right" you will have to know what speed you want and program it. Same for feeds. But CNC machines have a lot of aids built in now days. Another adjustment is now you have to know your coordinates and where you are and where you want to go. It's still X, Y, & Z but you'll have an origin to work from and everything is based on that origin. For me that was the part that took getting used to.
Now here's the really cool part. Throw your conventional thinking out the window! Let's say you're milling a funny three sided part with radius's in all of the corners. A real ***** to make on a Bridgeport. On a CNC you can cut the blank 1/8-1/4" taller than the part and use that extra bit to hold onto in a conventional mill vice. Do all your funny angles and radius's at one time while holding the part in the vice. Then flip it over and cut the base off. If it's difficult shaped part to hold in a vice or you have more operations to do you can machine a set of soft jaws to the profile and hold the part in them. You would never do that conventionally.
Good luck!
If they want you to be an "operator", you won't need to learn much of the control. Maybe "offsets" to adjust for tool wear / replacing a drill or a tap.
Hopefully Haas has "conversational" control. that would help you along a lot. It will figure the spindle speed from the material list it has stored, as well as picking a feed rate for the tool selected, be it tap, drill, or boring bar. We looked at a Haas years ago when they were just getting involved in Conversational Controls. At the time the Haas machines were not as heavy duty as the Japanese machines were, don't know about present day, I would imagine they should be OK.
I've always said that with the advent of conversational control, a person does not need to be a machinist to do good work on one. The control will do most everything you need to produce the part you are looking for. The "programmer" just needs to know what a tap, drill, etc is.
Dave E.
Hopefully Haas has "conversational" control. that would help you along a lot. It will figure the spindle speed from the material list it has stored, as well as picking a feed rate for the tool selected, be it tap, drill, or boring bar. We looked at a Haas years ago when they were just getting involved in Conversational Controls. At the time the Haas machines were not as heavy duty as the Japanese machines were, don't know about present day, I would imagine they should be OK.
I've always said that with the advent of conversational control, a person does not need to be a machinist to do good work on one. The control will do most everything you need to produce the part you are looking for. The "programmer" just needs to know what a tap, drill, etc is.
Dave E.
alvin l nunley
Site Supporter
tool offsets are easy. It's just telling the machine where the end of the tool is relative to the parts you are cutting. You lower the tool till it just barely touches the part and you tell the machine's controller where that is in Z. I used to use a little dial block. You lower the tool till it touches a pad on the block which is connected to a dial. You lower the tool until the dial reaches zero, and that's exactly 2.000 inches from the tool offset point. Hard to explain.
You then tell the machine where the part offset is. Usually a corner of the material. Just like on the manual machine, you use an edge finder. So one offset you already know how to find.
Then you tell the machine, in the case of end mills, the diameter of the tool. If the program is written with cutter offset compensation, you don't even need to do that. The program will tell you what size tool to use.
I'm pretty sure, with just a limited knowledge of machining and a limited knowledge of computers, you'll do just fine. The hardest part about CNC machining is knowing "what" to do, not how to do it. It sounds like you know how to do it already, now it's just a matter of knowing how to do it with a CNC. When I started I had no clue what the code meant, I had no clue how to edit it, the software did it all for me, all I needed to know was what I wanted to do.
They gave me a new CNC machine, a software program I had no idea of, and said make us some parts. The first major part I made, had 12 pages of blueprints and 127 features. It's just a matter of knowing what you want to do, which it sounds like you do, and learning how to tell the machine to do it.
As an operator, all you'll need to learn is how to put the part in the vice, or fixture, and how to set tool offsets. How to check the part for tolerance and how you set the cutter compensation offset to keep the part within tolerance.
Comments compliments criticisms and suggestions always welcome.
alvin l nunley
Site Supporter
By the way, until you learn how to program the machine, you're a CNC operator. When you learn how to program it, then you become a CNC machinist.
Just an example of programmer snobbery. lol
Just an example of programmer snobbery. lol
Anyone can run a CNC.
Put in the part.
Push the button.
Take the part out.
CNC is why parts are better quality and cheaper.
"... is the average guy/girl able to learn these machines that fast ?"
Programming is the skill to learn.
If you're motivated. I'd say yes.
You already know the math, setup and machining sequence.
Schools to run the machines aren't very long.
A week ?
I installed equipment in a CNC shop that had 1 programmer and 20 button pushers.
Put in the part.
Push the button.
Take the part out.
CNC is why parts are better quality and cheaper.
"... is the average guy/girl able to learn these machines that fast ?"
Programming is the skill to learn.
If you're motivated. I'd say yes.
You already know the math, setup and machining sequence.
Schools to run the machines aren't very long.
A week ?
I installed equipment in a CNC shop that had 1 programmer and 20 button pushers.
jack burroughs
member
If an operator can learn to run one without a 4 yr. Machinist or Toolmaker apprenticeship, it sure seems to me that that apprenticeship would put someone that far ahead of most others. I knew virtually nothing about computers but when I saw at the candy co. how many of the folks that were only in production, but did a lot of computer work and were IMHO, nitwits when it came to basic common sense things , I jumped at it. Thank goodness I had lots of great help.
Never-NEVER walk away from an opportunity that can help you in life...(unless there's a better offer in view)! If 'they' think ur qualified 2do the job, it's they're dollar. You say 'make or break'....if that is 'their' words, you 'might' give it some 2nd thoughts! I (myself) have hired people in the past on 'probationary' grounds, but have Never used the term 'make-or-break'. Maybe that's the 'new-math' on a dare! Good Luck JMO
Coty Morrow
New member
I learned cnc machine In one month. It was hard.
Running that machine is super easy. It's the programming that's a different story
Running that machine is super easy. It's the programming that's a different story
Were you previously a manual machinist ? Or did you start from scratch ?
i was previously a trainee for manual mill n lath... have a bought 2 1/2years in... know most opps but there are some I still have to learn... I think why they said theres a make or brake point (they used nicer words but know what they mint) was they are trying for there I.S.O. certification... a lot of what they are trying getting ready to do is 10X over my head!!! I can hold +/- .005 or better on most manual opps but some of what there planning to do is +/- .0005... big difference!!! who knows... i'm still waiting for a call back with a start date/time... tell I see that day im not banking on anything but wasn't even sure if what they where asking for could be done??
I cant afford to pass it up man! they had lay offs at the old machine shop I was at and I got cut... working as a lot porter now at a dealership tell I can find something better... the only good thing out of this so far is a local engine machine shop picked me up part time 1 day a week... =) but i'm hoping this new co. will pick me up full time and do engine machine on the side... both trades I want to learn! but fighting tooth n nail to get the dream back on track!!!
Ted Hamilton
Helmet Painter / Racer
If you can already think in 3d you're 10 steps ahead of most of the simple "operators" out there already... I'd say that time frame is do-able if you are willing to put in the extra work to become proficient on PC and study you-tube videos and hit the library for reference materials and possibly even community college courses in spare time... Like any skill, total-immersion yields the quickest / most-complete results. If you have other ties -- family, other jobs, etc., you'll have to assess the risk/reward. Good luck either way!
In a short answer, yes, it's doable. The keys to learning to run/program CNC equipment is learning the codes and what each of them do. Writing programs isn't that hard once you learn the codes and the design of the part is done on the computer, for the most part. Now multi-axis mills are a little different animal....lol
Funny story, several years ago when I was machining/programming, the company I worked for got a brand new Mori Seiki (SL-35) bar feed lathe, the plant manager (who thought he was an ace programmer/machinist) decided he was going to be the first to operate it after the Japanese guys came over to set it up, he programmed it, loaded the bar stock, mashed the start button. There was one little small problem, he forgot to zero his tooling out, so when the first G00 code (rapid traverse) was read, the machine had no idea where the tooling was in response to the chuck/bar stock, BOOOOOOOMMMMM! After ripping the turret nearly of the machine and destroying the chuck and tooling, they paid the Japanese somewhere around $100,000.00 (minus parts) to come back over and fix it. The plant manager was a lot more humble after that.....lol
One thing I forgot to ask is, is this a production machining job or a one off job? I've done both, and production machining gets very monotonous as opposed to making one of a kind stuff. Half the fun of CNC machining is setting up the machine to make a part. I stopped machining in 2000, so I'm sure some things have changed since then.