Mini gear issues / questions

Colt sr said:
Fine tuning is what the mini gear brings to the equation at least that the way I interpret it.
Click to expand...
I see this answer a lot, in regards to this topic. I have yet to receive an explanation as to why....

The only logical conclusion I can come up with, is less rotational weight. When I asked Southern Comfort if that is the case, his response was "not at all" and to check his other post for how advantageous they can be.... I checked them and found nothing.
 
Bigeasyebo said:
I see this answer a lot, in regards to this topic. I have yet to receive an explanation as to why....

The only logical conclusion I can come up with, is less rotational weight. When I asked Southern Comfort if that is the case, his response was "not at all" and to check his other post for how advantageous they can be.... I checked them and found nothing.
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It's the hundredths and thousandths and so on that the fine tuning comes into play. Basically you can dial in your gearing with less jump from each tooth added or reduced.
 
Colt sr said:
It's the hundredths and thousandths and so on that the fine tuning comes into play. Basically you can dial in your gearing with less jump from each tooth added or reduced.
Click to expand...
Unless I am seriously missing something, which I am not ruling out, the actual circumference of the mini and standard 52 gears is exactly the same, correct? Obviously, the 13 tooth driver would be the same for both the mini and standard gears. So how does that allow you to dial in your gearing better with the mini? I understand that the mini gears allow you to use smaller tooth gears (as low as 33 I believe), that are simply not compatible with a standard gear hub... Again, what I do not understand, is the difference between the 2, when you are using a gear combination, that is compatible with both types, ie.. 13/52. If I adjust the rear sprocket to a 51, with either type, the adjustment is exactly the same. Same thing if I go up to a 53. The jump is not larger for either one, it is exactly the same. Again, I may be missing something, that is why I am asking.
 
13/52 if you have in a standard gear set, is considered to be the same as a mini gear set at 13/52. For many many years the standard gear set was only as low as a 53, in the last 5 years, give or take, we had mini gears come out which we could go as low as a 40 if needed. Thats what many consider as a "mini gear".
So if your mini gear or your standard gear is same amount of teeth, there is no difference.
Also when going from standard gear, you are dropping the front 2-3 , i think thats what people are confusing themselves. Standard to a mini is the dropping of the front driver as well.
Now with that 13/52 you could use a mini gear and go to a 12/48 , but thats dropping 1 front and still keeps the rear around a 50 which isnt helping you much, probably wouldnt even be noticeable at all.
That 13/52 is a 4/0 ratio, say you was on a 15/60 and then went to the 13/52, that would be considered a drop to mini gears because of the loss in front teeth, even though you may still be a standard gear set with the 52.
Hope this somewhat helps.
 
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Mini gears have been around for many many years. Rocket Sprocket had their accelerator (mini) gears out back in the '90s. We ran them and still have them in the trailer. They weren't a huge advantage with the stock flatheads, so they never gained much popularity back then. Mini gears are not some new invention, simply their advantage is being recognized with the current ohv engines.

Something that may be lost in this discussion is the closeness of ratios between gears.
Take the example that Earl showed with a 4:1 ratio.
Now, instead of changing to the same ratio, change 1 tooth, resulting in a different ratio.
You can tell from a gear ratio chart that the distance of the ratio between teeth varies considerably from small drivers and gears to larger ones.

13:52 = 4.00
Drop 1 tooth on the rear - 13:51 = 3.92. that's a .08 change in 1 tooth.

Now use the 15:60 gearing which is still 4:1
15:60 = 4.00
Drop 1 tooth on the rear - 13:59 = 3.94. that's a .07 change in 1 tooth.

Now drop down to the 10T. Same 4:1 ratio
10:40 = 4.00
Drop 1 tooth on the rear - 10:39 - 3.90. that's a .10 change in 1 tooth.

Don't know if this helps anyone, but hopefully it clears up some confusion on ratios as rear teeth are changed.
There are so many dynamics involved in chain drive systems (coefficient of drag, angular contact, etc etc) you can read through countless threads on this site alone -- then really blow your mind and read/study more in the bicycle forums.
5 years of physics and engineering math and the best I can tell you is that "if it's faster on the stop watch (Mychron,) it's faster on the track."

-----
🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
www.youtube.com
35 years of service to the karting industry ~ 1Cor 9:24
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
 
Is rocket Sprockets the only one that makes a standard rear sprocket in a 52T gear? Looks like it would work with a standard hub too.
 
CarlsonMotorsports said:
Mini gears have been around for many many years. Rocket Sprocket had their accelerator (mini) gears out back in the '90s. We ran them and still have them in the trailer. They weren't a huge advantage with the stock flatheads, so they Mi never gained much popularity back then. ni gears are not some new invention, simply their advantage is being recognized with the current ohv engines.

Something that may be lost in this discussion is the closeness of ratios between gears.
Take the example that Earl showed with a 4:1 ratio.
Now, instead of changing to the same ratio, change 1 tooth, resulting in a different ratio.
You can tell from a gear ratio chart that the distance of the ratio between teeth varies considerably from small drivers and gears to larger ones.

13:52 = 4.00
Drop 1 tooth on the rear - 13:51 = 3.92. that's a .08 change in 1 tooth.

Now use the 15:60 gearing which is still 4:1
15:60 = 4.00
Drop 1 tooth on the rear - 13:59 = 3.94. that's a .07 change in 1 tooth.

Now drop down to the 10T. Same 4:1 ratio
10:40 = 4.00
Drop 1 tooth on the rear - 10:39 - 3.90. that's a .10 change in 1 tooth.

Don't know if this helps anyone, but hopefully it clears up some confusion on ratios as rear teeth are changed.
There are so many dynamics involved in chain drive systems (coefficient of drag, angular contact, etc etc) you can read through countless threads on this site alone -- then really blow your mind and read/study more in the bicycle forums.
5 years of physics and engineering math and the best I can tell you is that "if it's faster on the stop watch (Mychron,) it's faster on the track."

-----
🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
www.youtube.com
35 years of service to the karting industry ~ 1Cor 9:24
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
Click to expand...
They never gained popularity also to the fact that WKA was the biggest organization back in the day and the lowest tooth rear gear you could use legally was a 53. I believe if it wasnt for this rule, the mini gear system would have been utilized a lot more in the early 2000s when the animal motor was beginning.
Now jump ahead to Nitro making these and Scott Heath using these at Charlotte, and along with the dropping of that 53 rule, and thats where we are today.
 
SoCo Tire Treatments said:
They never gained popularity also to the fact that WKA was the biggest organization back in the day and the lowest tooth rear gear you could use legally was a 53. I believe if it wasnt for this rule, the mini gear system would have been utilized a lot more in the early 2000s when the animal motor was beginning.
Now jump ahead to Nitro making these and Scott Heath using these at Charlotte, and along with the dropping of that 53 rule, and thats where we are today.
Click to expand...
Yea Earl, but they didn't have that rule until they saw a few people running the Rocket Sprockets. They chose 53 because Horstman/RLV was a sponsor and that's the smallest gear they offered. Rocket offered (and still does) a 52 that fits the full size hubs.
No doubt the ohv engines benefit more from the small gears than the flathead did. We had some success with the mini-gears back in the day, but it wasn't as significant of a difference as it is today with today's ohv engines.
 
CarlsonMotorsports said:
Mini gears have been around for many many years. Rocket Sprocket had their accelerator (mini) gears out back in the '90s. We ran them and still have them in the trailer. They weren't a huge advantage with the stock flatheads, so they never gained much popularity back then. Mini gears are not some new invention, simply their advantage is being recognized with the current ohv engines.

Something that may be lost in this discussion is the closeness of ratios between gears.
Take the example that Earl showed with a 4:1 ratio.
Now, instead of changing to the same ratio, change 1 tooth, resulting in a different ratio.
You can tell from a gear ratio chart that the distance of the ratio between teeth varies considerably from small drivers and gears to larger ones.

13:52 = 4.00
Drop 1 tooth on the rear - 13:51 = 3.92. that's a .08 change in 1 tooth.

Now use the 15:60 gearing which is still 4:1
15:60 = 4.00
Drop 1 tooth on the rear - 13:59 = 3.94. that's a .07 change in 1 tooth.

Now drop down to the 10T. Same 4:1 ratio
10:40 = 4.00
Drop 1 tooth on the rear - 10:39 - 3.90. that's a .10 change in 1 tooth.

Don't know if this helps anyone, but hopefully it clears up some confusion on ratios as rear teeth are changed.
There are so many dynamics involved in chain drive systems (coefficient of drag, angular contact, etc etc) you can read through countless threads on this site alone -- then really blow your mind and read/study more in the bicycle forums.
5 years of physics and engineering math and the best I can tell you is that "if it's faster on the stop watch (Mychron,) it's faster on the track."

-----
🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
www.youtube.com
35 years of service to the karting industry ~ 1Cor 9:24
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
Click to expand...
Great explanation !
 
CarlsonMotorsports said:
Yea Earl, but they didn't have that rule until they saw a few people running the Rocket Sprockets. They chose 53 because Horstman/RLV was a sponsor and that's the smallest gear they offered. Rocket offered (and still does) a 52 that fits the full size hubs.
No doubt the ohv engines benefit more from the small gears than the flathead did. We had some success with the mini-gears back in the day, but it wasn't as significant of a difference as it is today with today's ohv engines.
Click to expand...
Brian, that race in Charlotte, saying about 5 years back or so, when that rule was actually still in effect as for WKA. Rule was changed after that race. NKA changed the rule, and as we know WKA follows NKA rules.
It was even brought up at Charlotte, but at the time, supposively, NKA had no rule regarding gear, just WKA. And the Charlotte race was under NKA rules enforcement. After that is when NKA said you can run small gears, and WKA so then adapted.
 
Kodyglynn said:
I’m looking for some advice. I recently went to PMI mini gears and instantly seemed like I had a gear bound issues. Lost acceleration and just seems like it’s bound up. I’m not sure what the issue is. I went to a shorter chain (120 to around 108 currently). Did not change anything else besides went to a mini gear set up. 2023 kart everything is fresh.

Anyone else had this issue or does anyone have any ideas?
Click to expand...
Could you share a mini gear chart that you may have? NVM i found one.
 
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