New class question.

krtrcn

Member
I recently talked to a track promoter about starting a L206 class. I have a clue of guys that I race with on board with this and the promoter is also. We're thinking that by doing this would be a good thing.
Here's the problem. 1- Trying to convince others to try this. I know it could be hard, because here yet another motor. To tell you the truth I had to be convinced.
2- I've heard the promoter state that they don't know how long they will lease the track.We don't want to invest money in a motor and then not have any where to run them.
There is one other track with in an hour or so but they do not have a certified tech man.

Do we invest this and hope that the track runs us no matter who's in charge and maybe introduce to a couple more tracks near by and hope they want us or just wait and see what happens with the track.
I honestly feel that this is a good thing for the sport. Any input please.
 
If you get at least 3 and show up together most any track will let you run, HOWEVER having to convinced others racing there to switch motors is just thinning whatever class they would be leaving SO in that case are you helping, NOW if the guy's have 2 karts and then try that motor that's different, Also remember most tracks now racers are complaining to many classes I don't know if that's the case there BUT consider that as well.
 

krtrcn

Member
That's another problem too many classes. We run a predator class them turn around and a pro class with nothing different between them. But what I really can't understand is jr. pro classes. What makes a jr drive a pro.
I know that it's more money for the track.
I feel that the l206 would weed out a bunch of these bogus classes.
 
That's another problem too many classes. We run a predator class them turn around and a pro class with nothing different between them. But what I really can't understand is jr. pro classes. What makes a jr drive a pro.
I know that it's more money for the track.
I feel that the l206 would weed out a bunch of these bogus classes.

If it ends up doing that while keeping or Increases total entries then Good, However If not then NO help, It's a tough call but I've seen tracks try to do to much and it usually ends up hurting.
 
I believe the jr pro stuff is for the jr to be able to race more than just 15 laps in one night. For jr1 its hard to make a light and heavy class so I think its easier to just make a pro class for them. That's just my input so I really wouldn't call it a bogus class.
 

XXX#40

TRUMP 2020
That's another problem too many classes. We run a predator class them turn around and a pro class with nothing different between them. But what I really can't understand is jr. pro classes. What makes a jr drive a pro.
I know that it's more money for the track.
I feel that the l206 would weed out a bunch of these bogus classes.

I said when the clone first got a national set of rules that in about 5 yrs after that, that the 206 would be a better option for a budget class, and I still think that.
you get about 5 together to race them, and when the fence hangers see how close the racing is, and how cheap the engine is it will grow just like the first clones, remember they laughed at us for racing the clones but look at it now.
 
LO206 dont have much chance of catching on here in the Carolinas, Predator can be bought for $99 here and that seems to be the direction a lot here are taking. Clone is still by far the biggest classes on most of the tracks, and dont really see that changing anytime in the near future.
As for weeding out bogus classes, more classes equals more money. They could do the same with LO206, its not the motor that creates more classes ( even though if it did take, theres more classes ), its the folks organizing the show. And its really not the Promoters fault since the karters themselves keep asking for more and more.
 

krtrcn

Member
Earl, you can get a race ready l206 a lot cheaper than you can a "top level" clone.
The predators which I run around 500.
I've talked to a couple engine builders about these motors and both said for under 150 $ for parts and labor on what your allowed to rebuild. The other great selling point is motors are sealed from Briggs with a bar code on the tag so if a tech man has something questionable this is sent to Briggs, who wrote the rules for this engine and really hasn't changed in ten years. You can say that about the clone or predator. This package puts the race in the driver's hand not someone's checkbook.
It wouldn't hurt to give this try. I know it's not going to catch on like wild fire, but it's worth a try.
 
The other thing to keep in mind about the LO206:

While it is another engine option, it is not (and will not) be a replacement for the blueprinted classes.
Nor was it ever intended to be.
Karting has always been about "tinkerers" and "shade tree mechanics." You know, those guys that want to "hop up" their engine to make it faster than their buddy's. I don't think anyone wants to take that competitive nature away from our sport.
Instead, the LO206 fills a much needed niche in our sport of guys who are looking for engine equality, affordability, and reliability.
The early clone and Predator engines fill 1, or 2 at best, out of those three requirements. As soon as you get engine builders involved in much more than tuning (ie twisting cams, low tension rings, align-boring and honing cylinders,) then essentially you've got just another blueprinted class (governor still in tact or not!)

Too many classes are a very real problem at most tracks.

If you want to get the LO206 program up and rolling, it'll take 3 guys to commit to running it consistently at the same track(s.)
Once guys start seeing the speed, competitiveness, reliability....and SMILES, others will join.
I've seen this scenario play out many times over.
If there's ever anything I can do to help, please feel free to contact me at the shop number listed below.


-----
Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
30 years of service to the karting industry
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
 
Earl, you can get a race ready l206 a lot cheaper than you can a "top level" clone.
The predators which I run around 500.
I've talked to a couple engine builders about these motors and both said for under 150 $ for parts and labor on what your allowed to rebuild. The other great selling point is motors are sealed from Briggs with a bar code on the tag so if a tech man has something questionable this is sent to Briggs, who wrote the rules for this engine and really hasn't changed in ten years. You can say that about the clone or predator. This package puts the race in the driver's hand not someone's checkbook.
It wouldn't hurt to give this try. I know it's not going to catch on like wild fire, but it's worth a try.

I have the same amount of money in my "top level" clone as an LO206 costs.
And as ive always said from day 1, supply and demand. If that LO206 becomes popular and demand goes up , watch the price point go up. Happened before with the flathead, happened quickly with the animal.
 
From where I sit, it looks like the engines themselves don't go up in price that much. It is when you get into blueprinting the entire engine that the price goes up.
Still can buy a clone for around $100. but to get it blueprinted is the real cost.
The whole idea of the L206 was to keep costs down and not allow blueprinting of the engine like the Animal or clone or flathead.
They way I understand it now. You cannot do anything to the engine except set float level, valve clearance etc, grind valves, No milling or machining at all.
It was not designed for the tinkerer at all. It was for people that want to buy a kart, engine and race. Go home clean kart and go back to their job. Not get into the never ending war of who builds the best engine, carb,cam, whatever is new.
Because they are always coming out with new improved parts every day as builders find a little more speed (if your cam profile is a little different, or if you port head a little different. Is there more horsepower there usually, Yes.
But again the L206 is designed to stop all that madness. Simple rules and the engine is blueprinted from the factory, lasts years between rebuilds. At least that is what every that runs them claims. My self. I am a tinkerer.
I can understand why some builders don't like the L206. Not much profit made there compared to a clone.
Hey That's America.
 

Don K

Member
The Predator will follow the path of the Clone. Out here they starting to run $1,000 to win races with them so we all know where that will lead. I figure about a year or so and you will see $1,200 Predators competing against your $99 out of the box motors and claiming it is fair.

As the world turns so does the course of karting.

DK
 
I have the same amount of money in my "top level" clone as an LO206 costs.
And as ive always said from day 1, supply and demand. If that LO206 becomes popular and demand goes up , watch the price point go up. Happened before with the flathead, happened quickly with the animal.


But Earl, you are too quickly forgetting that your "top level" clone just a few years ago cost considerably less.
The price of the LO206 cost has remained the same over that time period.

I expect the price of the engine (and components) to go up slightly every year.
Personally, we've held the price on our race-ready 206 the same for the past 2 years. (I sure can't say that for our clones.)

I think the biggest difference in pricing increases has been the cost to "update" said engines.
That's the primary difference in cost. I don't know about other engine builders, but I've gotten paid the same to do machine work and assembly of kart engines as I did back in the '90s. I charge the same to align-bore and hone a cylinder (whether it's a flathead, clone, or McCulloch!) The increase in price on the engines (and rebuilds) has little to do with the actual labor/machining involved.
Keeping builders out of the bottom end (and on a tight leash on the top end) leaves little room for major improvements. That's because the folks actually spec'ing and making the parts, are the ones who put together the rules package. No different importers, sponsors, sanctioning bodies, etc. It's all from the one same source with the 206.
An LO206 from 8 years ago is still competitive (and legal) today. Again, you can't say that with any other engine class.


Again, The LO206 is not a threat to take-over karting. It is simply another option available to the racers that don't want to race bank accounts when it comes to the latest-greatest new update for their engine.
You can bet that the serious 206 guys will still need to be on top of their tires, chassis, etc. There's still plenty of opportunity to spend money in 206 racing too. :)

The 206 makes a great platform to bring new (and budget) racers to our sport, who then can hopefully step up to a fully blueprinted class in the future. Whether that's clone, Predator, or whatever next is coming over on the slow boat. Personally, I think it makes a lot of sense to turn those used LO206s into alcohol animals - but that's just me. :)
We'll see what the future holds, but I like what I've see so far from the LO206.
 
The Predator will follow the path of the Clone. Out here they starting to run $1,000 to win races with them so we all know where that will lead. I figure about a year or so and you will see $1,200 Predators competing against your $99 out of the box motors and claiming it is fair.

As the world turns so does the course of karting.

DK

And IF the Lo 206 get's as popular as the other two IT will go down the same path as them.
 
But Earl, you are too quickly forgetting that your "top level" clone just a few years ago cost considerably less.
The price of the LO206 cost has remained the same over that time period.

I expect the price of the engine (and components) to go up slightly every year.
Personally, we've held the price on our race-ready 206 the same for the past 2 years. (I sure can't say that for our clones.)

I think the biggest difference in pricing increases has been the cost to "update" said engines.
That's the primary difference in cost. I don't know about other engine builders, but I've gotten paid the same to do machine work and assembly of kart engines as I did back in the '90s. I charge the same to align-bore and hone a cylinder (whether it's a flathead, clone, or McCulloch!) The increase in price on the engines (and rebuilds) has little to do with the actual labor/machining involved.
Keeping builders out of the bottom end (and on a tight leash on the top end) leaves little room for major improvements. That's because the folks actually spec'ing and making the parts, are the ones who put together the rules package. No different importers, sponsors, sanctioning bodies, etc. It's all from the one same source with the 206.
An LO206 from 8 years ago is still competitive (and legal) today. Again, you can't say that with any other engine class.


Again, The LO206 is not a threat to take-over karting. It is simply another option available to the racers that don't want to race bank accounts when it comes to the latest-greatest new update for their engine.
You can bet that the serious 206 guys will still need to be on top of their tires, chassis, etc. There's still plenty of opportunity to spend money in 206 racing too. :)

The 206 makes a great platform to bring new (and budget) racers to our sport, who then can hopefully step up to a fully blueprinted class in the future. Whether that's clone, Predator, or whatever next is coming over on the slow boat. Personally, I think it makes a lot of sense to turn those used LO206s into alcohol animals - but that's just me. :)
We'll see what the future holds, but I like what I've see so far from the LO206.

Price hasn't changed because the Supply and Demand isn't there, IT will if that changes.
 
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