Newbie adjusting Camber

When adjusting camber it seems to me that the kart must be leveled in both axis Left to Right and Front to Back. (Especially Left to Right) But my question is do you adjust camber with tires staggered and mounted or with tires removed? It seems to me that the camber will change if your stagger is different from week to week track to track. But if it is camber is set with the kart leveled and not wheels attached it would be consistent.

It would be much easier to set camber with the wheels on and staggered but it just seems like the camber would change as your stagger changes.

Please advise.
 

mike97760

Premium User
Put the tires on you will be racing with next. You're actually adjusting the angle of the spindle and the wheel is on the same angle as the spindle. When we scale, align, or do any other chassis adjustment the kart is set with the tires we will race next at proper air pressures too. Might as well get in the habit of doing all the work involved in maintenance.
 
I guess as long as the front stagger never changes then it really doesn't matter. I was just over thinking it because I knew I had to level the kart. I don't have scale stands yet and always use stacks of printer paper leveled with a 6' level. I was just thinking the stagger would alter this angle.
 

mike97760

Premium User
I guess as long as the front stagger never changes then it really doesn't matter. I was just over thinking it because I knew I had to level the kart. I don't have scale stands yet and always use stacks of printer paper leveled with a 6' level. I was just thinking the stagger would alter this angle.
Stagger will change ride heights and cross numbers but not spindle angles. It will change the angle of the chassis,yes. Remember, karts are built around common setups and their numbers recommended are also based on these numbers. I'm not sure whose chassis you have but go to them (or their websites) for setup numbers. Assume they are based on something like 34 inch right side tire diameters and 32 1/2 inch left side tires.
 
My thought is stagger will change camber .
Both sides .
The amount might vary , it may be small but it changes .
To me caster is the angle of the spindle in relation to the the chassis. However, if the chassis is level'd out then once you add the stagger it has to change that base line. I just don't see how it can't change it. However, as long as I'm running 1.5" Stagger all the time I should be fine. The problem would be trying to duplicate someone's setup and not knowing if the chassis is being leveled with or with out stagger.
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
You do not level the chassis .
The surface the tires sit on is leveled .
Its all about repeatability .
Standard procedure is set the chassis on a level surface .
Scales , scale table or stacks of paper .
Camber is the relationship of the spindle to a level horizontal surface or line .
 

SCA

Member
The way I see it is you set your kart up on a level surface like flattop1 said and your caster and camber are measured in relation to that surface. Unfortunately every time you change one aspect of set up it changes other aspects of set up to some degree. All depends on what you changed and how much you changed it. Just about any caster or camber change will affect tow out and cross weight numbers. That's why when I change one thing I go back and check other settings to see if they have changed. As a result I end up going over everything several times until I'm satisfied everything is close to where I want it.
 

1fasttiller

Member
You must have tires on the kart and proper air because any given set of tires can change camber, albeit minute. Stagger doesn't really affect camber, you're looking into it too deep. Also remember a tire can be cut with camber as well ;)
 
I guess as long as the front stagger never changes then it really doesn't matter. I was just over thinking it because I knew I had to level the kart. I don't have scale stands yet and always use stacks of printer paper leveled with a 6' level. I was just thinking the stagger would alter this angle.
That is correct. Generally you don't change front stagger, so the tilt in the chassis front end will not change. Just keep all of your right side tires @ 34" and the ride height will remain the same.
Keep in mind that you are measuring the degree of angle (camber) from 0* level platform (scales stands, reams of paper, etc.) You are not measuring it in relation to the frame per se.
1fasttiller brings up an important point about camber cut tires. This is a big reason that few mess with camber cut tires on dirt anymore. It simply confuses the racer with positions of tires on the kart when most of us swap RF & RR on a regular basis. If that camber cut RR tire is placed on the RF, hang on...it will NOT handle like you expected. :) About the only people that we still camber cut tires for are indoor/syrup racers and guys running 2"+ rear stagger at little bullring tracks. Even then, we rarely camber cut the RFs because it becomes nearly impossible to measure/set up.


-----
🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
32 years of service to the karting industry ~ 1Cor 9:24
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
 
That is correct. Generally you don't change front stagger, so the tilt in the chassis front end will not change. Just keep all of your right side tires @ 34" and the ride height will remain the same.
Keep in mind that you are measuring the degree of angle (camber) from 0* level platform (scales stands, reams of paper, etc.) You are not measuring it in relation to the frame per se.
1fasttiller brings up an important point about camber cut tires. This is a big reason that few mess with camber cut tires on dirt anymore. It simply confuses the racer with positions of tires on the kart when most of us swap RF & RR on a regular basis. If that camber cut RR tire is placed on the RF, hang on...it will NOT handle like you expected. :) About the only people that we still camber cut tires for are indoor/syrup racers and guys running 2"+ rear stagger at little bullring tracks. Even then, we rarely camber cut the RFs because it becomes nearly impossible to measure/set up.


-----
🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
32 years of service to the karting industry ~ 1Cor 9:24
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com

Thanks Brian you always provide good insight for me!
 

Collin

Member
My toe got knocked out of wack this weekend and I just put it on scales and looks like I gained a percentage of cross. Will this happen when the toe gets knocked out?
 

1fasttiller

Member
My toe got knocked out of wack this weekend and I just put it on scales and looks like I gained a percentage of cross. Will this happen when the toe gets knocked out?
That will happen if the spindle is bent or camber is off. I doubt toe did it. We find that camber affects cross quite a lot.
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
Heres a quick fyi . On the leveling the chassis .
I thought the same thing as post # one , when we first started .
I tried it and it was not good , I abandoned that idea quick .
 

racing promotor

Moderator
Everytime you go on the scales numbers are slightly different play in bearings as well, just depends on where things settle in, DON'T over think it.
 
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