Track Tac

NKA Conversation Topic: What makes for a great track?

That sounds a lot like a track I went too a few times. They have it set up very well. QUOTE=Ted Hamilton;68831]OneHardHead/XXX#40 -- One thing you may be missing about the promoter making money is that KARTING IS A PARTICIPANT SPORT, NOT A SPECTATOR SPORT. Sorry, that's just the way it is for now. If a promoter wants to make serious money without fleecing the racers, they need to draw a crowd. That means 3 hr. shows MAX with only 4-5 classes, great racing with known personalities, and good facilities and food. But if you simply mean a GREAT kart track for the racers, read all the above posts. For my part, I'd like to see less money racing, more points racing, and big prizes at end of year that reward loyalty, not out-of-town money chasers... Thinking for the long haul will make the track and sport better....imo, of course. For a great participant-driven track, it'd still be nice to have less classes, more laps, and reasonable ($30-40) entry fees with no gate fee for the racers. Gate fees are dumb, IMO. Sell pit passes to those who need to be in there, fence off that area so spectators can't enter without 'em, and have bleachers and concessions for the spectators...[/QUOTE]
 
Ted Hamilton said:
OneHardHead/XXX#40 -- One thing you may be missing about the promoter making money is that KARTING IS A PARTICIPANT SPORT, NOT A SPECTATOR SPORT. Sorry, that's just the way it is for now. If a promoter wants to make serious money without fleecing the racers, they need to draw a crowd. That means 3 hr. shows MAX with only 4-5 classes, great racing with known personalities, and good facilities and food. But if you simply mean a GREAT kart track for the racers, read all the above posts. For my part, I'd like to see less money racing, more points racing, and big prizes at end of year that reward loyalty, not out-of-town money chasers... Thinking for the long haul will make the track and sport better....imo, of course. For a great participant-driven track, it'd still be nice to have less classes, more laps, and reasonable ($30-40) entry fees with no gate fee for the racers. Gate fees are dumb, IMO. Sell pit passes to those who need to be in there, fence off that area so spectators can't enter without 'em, and have bleachers and concessions for the spectators...
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Ted how does the insurance get paid with no gate fee?
They charge per head, doesnt matter if they are a racer or not, no gate fee means the insurance for everyone at the track comes out of entry fee's thus lowering payouts.
Trust me after running a very large track, not some wore out place in someones back yard, I know first hand the only spectators are racers or people that came with the racers, the bleachers would only have a hand full of people, but the observation deck next to the grid would be full of people
 
XXX#40 -- you proved my point -- you'll never make money in karting by drawing spectators. So stop gouging the racers and families to make up the difference. IMO, tracks should either get major sponsors if you're going to have big purses or else admit that we're not racing NASKART and scale everything back to reasonable family entertainment levels and affordability. I don't know what the preponderance of money races comes from, or racers' expectations that they should be winning money in the lowest form of motorsports anyhow. You used to be able to show up with kart in the back of your pickup and not be laughed out of the pits. Nowadays, karters seem to think nothing about spending $400 in tires to win $150.....skewed. There's a place in karting for professionalism, climbing the ladder, and showmanship -- along with the big purses and big fees that entails...... IMO, that place isn't the average Friday night points race. A GREAT track is one that provides the best possible experience for the maximum number of racers, and from my perspective that means stability in rules, large classes, low fees, and fun times. I guess what that boils down to is GREAT tracks pick their target goals and prioritize everything else around that... And a GREAT single race venue might be different than a GREAT weekly points track.
 
Ted, while I admire your optimism, money is the main draw for racers- plain and simple. Perhaps you put up $1000 to win one class, but only putting up 100% payback across the board will not fill the pits at most tracks nowadays. Kart minimums are beginning to scare away folks a little in our area as well, so guaranteed payoffs are always a draw. Most of the time consistency is a main sticking point- consistent calls, consistent tech, consistent track surface, consistent punctuality. Little things add up to providing a great experience for the average racer, keeps him happy, and keeps him coming back.
 
The average driver brings two people with them. Plus they pay entry fees, sometimes for multiple classes. Any promotor knows this. That is how you dont charge a driver a full price pit pass! Someone that Use to run a VERY LARGE track should know this. Promotors/track owners need to make money yes, the amount, as MUCH as they can. But the racer needs a return on his/her money also. A prepped track, a trained staff, and user friendly facilities to say the least.
I started working at my fathers 3/8's mile high banked oval when I was 10. I have held every position at a track including flagman so I also might know a thing or two about running a race track.
 
Yeah like has been said, this isnt full scale racing, and the bleachers arent full of spectators that pay gate fee's
 
Stock car track I use to run at gave away a free tire to a random drawed name during drivers meeting. Another had a photographer who wasn't paid but was there basically as a contractor take pics then walk around the pits and showed them to the crews to sell right there. He brought a nice printer with him. I always liked motor claim rules too.
 
I race as a family I take my wife and daughter to every race with me and neither race just me I see a lot of kids at tracks rather they race or not and I think play areas for the kids would be a great idea. Then u get more of the racers family's there because there is somthing for them to do while at the track. Like a swing set ect
 
I guess before I can jump in on this conversation, I would like to ask why it is labeled as an NKA conversation? Wouldn't this topic fall in "all tracks"?
 
Hotrod, I know that at least some stock car tracks have looked into purchasing playground equipment, but it is VERY expensive, and brings with it a entire different set of liability issues. I hear what you are saying, and agree wholeheartedly, but the reality is hard to overcome.
 
My race day is like this - try and understand from the promoters perspective. It is Thursday and we race Saturday night. So I look at the track - is it two wet from previous rains? Is it to dry - O.K. it is too dry. Friday morning I start to water but the water is just running off - Those back marks from the racers tires seal the surface and no water will penetrate it. S o - I know hat I have to do - get the rippers and the grader out. After I am done with that I go to fill the water truck. It only holds 1,000 gallons yet 5 loads will hold it till tomorrow let it soak in. Next day water another 5,000 gallons and pack it in with the roller and trucks. Then recut it again with the grader. Racers will be here early - Is all my staff coming? 2in the concession, one at the scales, one at the grid gate, Tech, 3 at the front gate, announcer, flagman, scorers, Para -medic, equipment operator just in case we must re-grade, infield flagman etc.
Just in case you forgot people don't work for free. It is expensive but necessary. Are all the lights working?, I s the P.A. system working/ Is the track and pit areas clean> All the barrels emptied? Do I have fresh methanol to sell. Gee I need someone to pump it.
Are my scales accurate? The list goes forever! Race time! Warm-ups are over. Call out the first heat! There are two stragglers - come on fellas we start on time! O.K. now we are racing- finally. Whoops the yellow is out - restart -it is the 5th lap. Line up racers! The number 14 started 2nd right behind number 7 - the 14 is still second but he thinks that he is leading. The 5th place kart stops where do I belong? Wow that just killed a lot of time. Heats are over - intermission is over - time for the first feature - Flagman calls the to the grid, again he calls the- "First feature to the grid! Finally some of the come but we are waiting on one who cannot get his started. Please dear Lord not again.
The race night is over - Tech decides who and what to check. He writes down the numbers. No one ever puts up the money to protest. They just tell you - Joe us cheating! No one wants to wait for tear downs in their class - "I want to go home" - I have a long ways to go! We understand. Payout window is ready - so we hand them their money. Then with what is left we need to pay the staff. Well we only had 35 karts - so once gain the promoter opens his wallet. Gee I wonder why people say promoters are gouging when in effect we are broke. Why do it? We are racers - same reason you do it. Thank you for your suggestions they are valid. Let's work together and have the best racing ever!
 
No offense, but you may be broke because you waited until Thursday to get ready for a Saturday event. If I can't expect good results from my kart with that lack of preparation, how can you possibly expect to promote an event that will keep racers coming back?
 
ONEHARDHEAD said:
No offense, but you may be broke because you waited until Thursday to get ready for a Saturday event. If I can't expect good results from my kart with that lack of preparation, how can you possibly expect to promote an event that will keep racers coming back?
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No offense, but I personally know what XXX40 and speedwaydesign are talking about. When you have a premier track, preparation is only 1 piece of the 60hr week, oh yea - that doesn't include the day job needed to pay your mortgage. What they are saying is spot on. There have been some great suggestions on here for what makes a great track and I'll bet anyone that between our three tracks - we've done them all.

What you guys want takes money - it's that simple - it's the same as winning at racing. Where and how you run are directly proportional to how much you spend. What we spend is directly proportional to how many entries we have. Figure out how to get 250 entries per night at our track, and I'll serenade the winner of each feature with a La Cucaracha from a mariachi band, plus have everything else that a top notch track should have.

With that being said, the question you really need to be asking is - how can we get more people into karting?

Just a few offerings on behalf of the promoters - Support your local tracks. Show up a couple of hours early with a weedeater and make a difference. Ask them - what can I do to help? Never forget to say thank-you. If you have the time, come out a couple of days early to help and see what it takes to prepare the track.
 
Forgot one -- have same motor rules as other nearby tracks so racers don't have to change all around to come race with you....
 
Bob Evans said:
Isn't that kind of up to the tracks?
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Well i was thinking along the lines as if you share the the same rules as other tracks around you, you would be more likely to draw more karts if lets say one was not running that night or they just wanted to run something different.
 
Perhaps I have been spoiled by the number of karters in our immediate area, but I believe, and have seen, that if you offer competitive purses with reasonable gate and entry fees, your kart count goes up. I stand by my assertion that preparation (not just on the track surface) is absolutely essential to the success of a karting facility. It's no different than any other pursuit, in that the amount of effort is usually directly proportional to results.
 
IMO, smart track owners will coordinate with other local tracks for the benefit of all.... a friendly comraderie type of competition. Misery loves company, as they say. ;) Tracks already take account of each other when deciding what night/day to run, so why not formalize that and actually officially coordinate rules.... If I could run Liberty, Stateline, and Bear Creek (3 local tracks to me within 1 hr.) Fri/Sat/Sun with no motor change and simply cleaning the kart off and swapping fresh tires, I'm much more likely to do so than if I have to swap motor, weights, and tire brands. Again, the point is the racer -- the easier and cheaper you make it to race, the more people will choose to do so, and the more they'll spend at your facility in the long run. I'd give the racer a $10 entry fee savings to see 'em pay another $30 in concessions every day of the week and twice on Sundays....
 
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