No Goats “loose leaving corner” RF

jclewis

Member
I respectfully disagree with this.

It is physically impossible to change cross ONLY. Cross is a combination of horizontal (Right & Left) and vertical (nose & rear). If you change cross you are also changing the others.

If I add weight to my RF it add to my nose and RS. Likewise other wheels.

Moving one washer on one wheel will change percentage distribution in every location.
If true, changing stagger would have the same affect

#StayLooseThen
 
I respectfully disagree with this.

It is physically impossible to change cross ONLY. Cross is a combination of horizontal (Right & Left) and vertical (nose & rear). If you change cross you are also changing the others.

If I add weight to my RF it add to my nose and RS. Likewise other wheels.

Moving one washer on one wheel will change percentage distribution in every location.
Youre not adding just weight to the RF with a change of washers for cross, it also adds to the LR equally. That then makes a very minimal to no change of left and nose.
Changing stagger makes a change to the X pattern of the kart also, not just that 1 corner. The kart works in an X, change 1 corner it effects the opposite.
 

paulkish

old fart
About a change of Stagger:

A change of Stagger does two things and only two things:
1. It changes the difference in the surface speed between your two rear tires.
2. It changes ride height at either rear corner of both rear corners.
a. It also changes everything changed when you make a ride height adjustment in the back.

That's all it does.

The rest is about why you needed to make a stagger change in the first place.

Racing is about being the fast thing on the track.
All other things being equal oval racing who is fast and who is not so fast is about who can maintain the most momentum and apply the most hp accelerating for the multiple velocities you take around the track.

Which makes being fast a combination of maintaining momentum and applying hp.
Stagger is an adjustment which first helps you to "roll" in a corner at a higher speed then others.
Secondly it can help with controlling your accelerating velocity while turning.
And lastly it can help reduce conflicting friction between your two rear tires and the track while on the straight.

Change stagger and to some extent you change all of the above.
In general though more stagger usually helps you turn if you need more ability to turn.
There is no perfect stagger unless your racing on a track which is a perfect circle.
Stagger is there for you to use and the rest is about where and when you need to use it.
Sometimes depending on the situation and how you are using your rear tires there is no need for stagger and even if you have it you may not be using it.
Fast is about maintaining momentum and applying hp accelerating.
What's important is how stagger can be used to maintain momentum and help you accelerate.
Whey you make a stagger change if your not doing it to maintain either or help one or the other your change will slow you down.

Find the problem or need for a change and then pick and choose from stagger and many other tools what is needed to fix your on track problem.

Answering the first post in my way is the same as others said. Stagger is about how much turning you have to at what speed, not track banking.
 

XXX#40

2A supporter
About a change of Stagger:

A change of Stagger does two things and only two things:
1. It changes the difference in the surface speed between your two rear tires.
2. It changes ride height at either rear corner of both rear corners.
a. It also changes everything changed when you make a ride height adjustment in the back.

That's all it does.

The rest is about why you needed to make a stagger change in the first place.

Racing is about being the fast thing on the track.
All other things being equal oval racing who is fast and who is not so fast is about who can maintain the most momentum and apply the most hp accelerating for the multiple velocities you take around the track.

Which makes being fast a combination of maintaining momentum and applying hp.
Stagger is an adjustment which first helps you to "roll" in a corner at a higher speed then others.
Secondly it can help with controlling your accelerating velocity while turning.
And lastly it can help reduce conflicting friction between your two rear tires and the track while on the straight.

Change stagger and to some extent you change all of the above.
In general though more stagger usually helps you turn if you need more ability to turn.
There is no perfect stagger unless your racing on a track which is a perfect circle.
Stagger is there for you to use and the rest is about where and when you need to use it.
Sometimes depending on the situation and how you are using your rear tires there is no need for stagger and even if you have it you may not be using it.
Fast is about maintaining momentum and applying hp accelerating.
What's important is how stagger can be used to maintain momentum and help you accelerate.
Whey you make a stagger change if your not doing it to maintain either or help one or the other your change will slow you down.

Find the problem or need for a change and then pick and choose from stagger and many other tools what is needed to fix your on track problem.

Answering the first post in my way is the same as others said. Stagger is about how much turning you have to at what speed, not track banking.
It changes cross as well Paul, also sidewall flex, Nose% and LS%
 
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If true, changing stagger would have the same affect

#StayLooseThen
I completely agree with you. However, by changing back to another set of tire/stagger for the Jr3 class it would keep that setup/class correct where it needs to be.

I don’t have the money to buy two karts. But, I’ve been able to put but one kart in the running for both points championships. Yes it requires a lot of work between races. Some say it’s not worth it.

With a loose kart we were still fastest on the track. I don’t want to make a whole sale change for one class that we won 3 out 4 features in.

I’m looking for a tweak that only effect one class. I think stagger may be the best choice.
 

jclewis

Member
I completely agree with you. However, by changing back to another set of tire/stagger for the Jr3 class it would keep that setup/class correct where it needs to be.

I don’t have the money to buy two karts. But, I’ve been able to put but one kart in the running for both points championships. Yes it requires a lot of work between races. Some say it’s not worth it.

With a loose kart we were still fastest on the track. I don’t want to make a whole sale change for one class that we won 3 out 4 features in.

I’m looking for a tweak that only effect one class. I think stagger may be the best choice.
Making the change, may make you even faster in the other class as well
 
Youre not adding just weight to the RF with a change of washers for cross, it also adds to the LR equally. That then makes a very minimal to no change of left and nose.
Changing stagger makes a change to the X pattern of the kart also, not just that 1 corner. The kart works in an X, change 1 corner it effects the opposite.
Thank you. He can respectfully disagree but this is still exactly what happens. Adding cross adds weight to the RF and LR and takes weight off the LF and RR

To see any change in nose or LS you would have to move all the washers accordingly on both sides and even then i dont believe that is enough to see a change. If you do see a change its not what is effecting the handling, its the massive cross change, not the .1 or .2 of LS or nose.
 

1fasttiller

Member
I would be more concerned with how much adding or removing cross is effecting my RF and LF camber than nose and left.
Exactly! We see quite a bit of camber and castor change when moving washers around for cross. It affects it much more than you'd think!
 
I respectfully disagree with this.

It is physically impossible to change cross ONLY. Cross is a combination of horizontal (Right & Left) and vertical (nose & rear). If you change cross you are also changing the others.

If I add weight to my RF it add to my nose and RS. Likewise other wheels.

Moving one washer on one wheel will change percentage distribution in every location.
To change cross i just move my lead weights around to different areas then rescale i dont move washers
 

XXX#40

2A supporter
CautiousRemarkableBonobo-max-1mb.gif
 

paulkish

old fart
2. It changes ride height at either rear corner of both rear corners.
a. It also changes everything changed when you make a ride height adjustment in the back.

I think I did mention popcorn. ... :)

I think it makes a stagger change mostly if not all about it changing the difference in surface speed between the two rear tires.
And a stagger change then becomes totally about directly altering how your two rear tires fight or don't fight with each other for control of grip.
In a fight there's a winner, a looser or it's a draw.
Which tire gets the most needed usable weight at the correct time determines the outcome of either increased or decreased change in the difference in surface speed between them.
With so much effort going into staggered solid axle racers be it sprints, super lates, emods etc., via shock lock down, coil bind, aero etc., or karts with the driver sitting on the LR to in any and every way "lock down the LR", isn't it all an effort to extend the length of time you are able to use stagger?
There is no reason to Lock Down or Pin a LR unless your going to use it to brake or rudder the left rear corner into the track for the purpose of gaining some rotation of the whole thing your racing around it.
Simply put stagger works by putting your LR into the ground so you can get enough work from it when your slowing down for the RR to roll around it getting you some rotation out of the back of your staggered solid axle racer.
Then it sets up for you to start your acceleration off of your smaller low gear left rear, which is ideal unless you have unlimited hp and unlimited grip at the RR.
Next comes after starting to accelerate off the LR in your turn more centripetal force from the acceleration instantly moving weight to the outside right side.
How you use that movement of weight from your initial acceleration while turning then becomes critical depending on your racing.
It's also when the mythical idea of balance comes into play.
Balance is about when you have gone beyond getting maximum use and rotation out of how ever your able to use what ever stagger you have.
Balance is about needing to use your right side tires balance in a way that your able to get needed turning from your front tires to overcome your loss of rotation at the back and to let you use the acceleration you get from the back in the direction you want to go.
My preaching of brake, insert arc, turn, accelerate over just brake, turn, accelerate is about your still needing to get from point A to point B in the quickest way.
My inserting an arc is about initially accelerating up to a point where you can pick a point A and B to get to taking an arc at elevated speed instead of spinning your wheels there or grinding off speed when you to abruptly tried to turn and head straight or straighter between points A and B. Sure if you have the hp and the grip to put to the RR you can set what your racing on your RR and go or ring it about the top. But this is about low hp applications and even with the highest hp stuff it's going to be harder to get from A to B without inserting an arc and rolling at an elevated speed.
Lastly there is at some point going to be a place on the track where you are going to have to make another turn to head down the straight.
IMHO to be fast, even that last turn be it very short or sort of a continuation of your last turn onto the straight needs to also have an insertion of some sort of arc effort.

A stagger change or any other change is about understanding what you need at every place on a constantly changing track, to control grip at each tire. It's about how much grip you use at each tire, when you start changing the amount of grip at each tire and how long you to use it.

Getting faster is about correctly seeing on track problems and know what you have to work with to fix them.

Fast is about doing all of the above so what your racing can get around the track in the most efficient manner.




... or it ain't because this is all IMHO and ain't necessairly right anyway. ... :)

but it's fun to write about and now back to that poker game and another cup of coffee. ... :)
 
Oh boy.... you've got some learning to do my friend.

This is entirely wrong and even though it seems right to you and shows numbers moving on the scale, I can promise you it isn't correct.
Almost like a case of what came first the chicken or the egg. But what made my handling better/worse the cross or the LS/nose% change
 
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