Track Tac

No prep tires

E

e & b racing

Member
I've been out of dirt kart racing for sometime, but never lost interest.
In the last year and half have traveled to tracks like Neeses, Paradise, Southern Kart Way and Florence. Tires, tires, tires. Hot boxes, inside prep, outside prep, grinding, blues, pinks, orange.
What about running without that stuff? Doesn't matter the brand, set your stagger, air pressure or nitrogen level and race the tires you have with nothing on them.
Don't know how you would police it, but the cost would drop for a lot competitors and cost is always a issue for independent racers and people who would like to have a hobby that is fun and competitive.
I'm willing to put in the work to learn this science of prep, but at what price?
 
Deadman#73 said:
The only time ive ever seen it work was in the 21 and older animal class at lake village on us41 in Indiana. You got one set of tires for the year, they would be marked after coming off yhe track and only water was allowed. They also had an area just for the racers in that class to police the no prep rule. Never seen it work anywhere else in my area but itd be nice if more tracks had some structure to regulate rules like this.
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Oh bye way thanks for the reply. I just put that out there for topic of discussion and gather info.
One set per yr is tough. What l would like to see is the mfgs supply tires for a event at a good cost to racers, no matter what brand they want to run. Vega's, Burris, Maxxis, Bridgestone, whatever. Limit them 2 sets for 1 day event and 1 more set for a additional day and they cannot make change in brand.
Tell me what you think.
 
Anyone race at Millbridge? They have a tire rule where you have to put on/take off tires in a certain area and be mounted there in from of them, etc for 1 of the beginner outlaw kart classes. The Rotax world championship stuff has an area where they control tires. It can be done, but it is money intensive. It isn't going to happen at most local tracks unless the family running it is the Duggers just due to how many sets of eyes you would need and trust me, I am as anti-prep as you can be.
 
Anyone who thinks no prep will be a cost saver is wrong, prep extends the life of the tire. What causes the tire to wear out, sliding. Prep helps to control that, if no prep you would really use up tires and spend more money buying tires. Much more than the money spent on prep.
And to enforce such a rule is nearly impossible. If they cant fully 100% stop it in WoO or the Lucas Series, who actually have spectators who help with the cost of testing a tire, how do you stop it and pay for it in karting?
This subject comes up at least 2-3 times a year, and has for the last 20 years. Karters prep because they want to. WKA tried it, and it failed miserable.
 
Anyone who thinks no prep will be a cost saver is wrong, prep extends the life of the tire. What causes the tire to wear out, sliding. Prep helps to control that, if no prep you would really use up tires and spend more money buying tires. Much more than the money spent on prep.
This s baloney!

And to enforce such a rule is nearly impossible. If they cant fully 100% stop it in WoO or the Lucas Series, who actually have spectators who help with the cost of testing a tire, how do you stop it and pay for it in karting?
This is not baloney.

DK
 
Menace61 said:
Now I want a baloney sandwich to go with my pop corn.
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Yea! And I was accused of "peddling baloney sandwiches" on another thread about tire temperatures. LOL
I kinda like mine fried, please, with a little Frank's Red Hot Sauce.

We wear out tires by cutting, grinding, sanding, etc. Very little wear (tread depth reduction) occurs on the track at all in karting!

As for the OP's question. Give it a shot. I know there will be several karters ready with hot boxes, heat guns, torches, and rollers in their trailers to meet the challenge. This already occurs at some big events. Tires are handed out in the morning, etc. By race time, they've got all the same preps in them, just pounded in with heat.

I don't know what the answer is, but I can guarantee you that it is NOT treaded tires. We are getting requests for more and more cut & prepped treaded kart tires, almost on a daily basis at this point (and it's still winter up here in the norf!)


-----
🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
31 years of service to the karting industry
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
 
By race time, they've got all the same preps in them, just pounded in with heat.
And that is dangerous.

We tried enforcing a no prep at track no open flame rule but it was futile. Idiots just went inside closed trailers. After a couple weeks we thru our hands up and said, "fa getta bout it". Perhaps Sanctioning Bodies should provide a campaign of Prep Safety. Like the campaign against the tobacco industry.

DK
 
Let me get this straight, you guy's are saying un prepped tires will not slide as much as a prepped tire ?
And a tire that's sliding will not wear out quicker than one gripping the proper amount ?
 
If you let the competitors take the tire out of your sight you allowed prep.

You have to have full confiscation at all times except on grid/track. Then you still have to watch every move and that requires cameras and tons of eyeballs.
 
Grip and tearing is what wears tires. Sliding, not so much. Set up a Parc Ferme, and spec an 80 duro rental kart tire, and your tires will last 2 seasons.
Everyone will be sliding around, and have to tune around the tires. It will be slower...but it may well be more fun, and certainly less hassle.

Alternatively, spec narrower tires too. Everyone runs 4.5" wide lefts and 6" wide rights... Again, more sliding, maybe more fun. I have a sneaking suspicion that what drivers find fun is close competition, not tire prepping. And there can only be one winner, so if your criteria for fun in karting is only winning, you're probably not having much fun.
 
Never claimed to know much about tires and how things work, BUT guess I know less than what I thought. All well guess the amusement factor has value.
 
My local track tried to start a No Prep Class. You brought your wheels, they put on new tires that they bought and sold to you. The tires never left weigh-in area and the track kept them til next race.
No one signed up.
 
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Sliding on a tire harder than the surface wont hurt it very bad. Now sliding a tire softer than the surface you are running on causes damage to the tire. Racing promotor you are right about what you said, everyone else is also correct. No two situations with tires are the same and the ONLY way your going to enforce a rule like a no prep is having an impound area next to the grid where all the racers leave their karts. That way track officials can be where they need to be to enforce the rules properly. All karts go in when they arrive, the track holds the tires during the week. You go in track gives you your tires you put them on the kart and at the end of the night the track holds them till next race day. Its simple, set area for karts, only tools and air tank/compressors allowed, set up scales for all racers in that class in said area, and let them race. Everyone gets the same tire wash or water and your tires and kart stay in said area till the end, tech if applicable. Yeah people will say up and down it will never work but Ive seen it work. Put this structure into the predator classes popping up everyone and Id bet people would run it. 100$ engine, 1 set of never cut or prepped tires, and you would probably have some very close very fun racing. It would also teach newbies more about chassis setup and gearing rather than blowing peoples minds with the chemical science this sport is now. Id be all for it but finding a group of like minded people in a world of individuals that are into karting is really damn hard Ive come to find out.

Biggest reason it does not work is dishonest people and they will always want to get any edge they can to win.
 
Let's get this straight, you guy's are saying un prepped tires will not slide as much as a prepped tire ?
And a tire that's sliding will not wear out quicker than one gripping the proper amount ?
The second sentence is true.

Prepped grab the track; right? Forces on the contact patch are greater; right? Stagger, cross, L-side, camber and acriman close to perfect to carve the corner; right? And your telling me a prepped tire isn't wearing faster? Baloney! Just faster results for the cost of higher investment. I'll tell now I'm spending much less money on tires to race my micro 600 more races per year than I did my karts.

DK
 
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Deadman#73 said:
Sliding on a tire harder than the surface wont hurt it very bad. Now sliding a tire softer than the surface you are running on causes damage to the tire. Racing promotor you are right about what you said, everyone else is also correct. No two situations with tires are the same and the ONLY way your going to enforce a rule like a no prep is having an impound area next to the grid where all the racers leave their karts. That way track officials can be where they need to be to enforce the rules properly. All karts go in when they arrive, the track holds the tires during the week. You go in track gives you your tires you put them on the kart and at the end of the night the track holds them till next race day. Its simple, set area for karts, only tools and air tank/compressors allowed, set up scales for all racers in that class in said area, and let them race. Everyone gets the same tire wash or water and your tires and kart stay in said area till the end, tech if applicable. Yeah people will say up and down it will never work but Ive seen it work. Put this structure into the predator classes popping up everyone and Id bet people would run it. 100$ engine, 1 set of never cut or prepped tires, and you would probably have some very close very fun racing. It would also teach newbies more about chassis setup and gearing rather than blowing peoples minds with the chemical science this sport is now. Id be all for it but finding a group of like minded people in a world of individuals that are into karting is really damn hard Ive come to find out.

Biggest reason it does not work is dishonest people and they will always want to get any edge they can to win.
Click to expand...
So a track lets say has 40-60 of karts show up, and the track holds the tires during the week, whos maintaining the tires thru the week as far as stagger? Not all staggers would be the same either. Nobody doing that amount of tires for free. Someone needs paid, along with the extra tech that would be needed at track in the impound area.
That is the one reason i hear lots about why a tire impound will not work. A karter who loses a race because someone didnt keep up with their stagger, next thing you hear is that the track plays favorites.
 
CarlsonMotorsports said:
Yea! And I was accused of "peddling baloney sandwiches" on another thread about tire temperatures. LOL
I kinda like mine fried, please, with a little Frank's Red Hot Sauce.

We wear out tires by cutting, grinding, sanding, etc. Very little wear (tread depth reduction) occurs on the track at all in karting!

As for the OP's question. Give it a shot. I know there will be several karters ready with hot boxes, heat guns, torches, and rollers in their trailers to meet the challenge. This already occurs at some big events. Tires are handed out in the morning, etc. By race time, they've got all the same preps in them, just pounded in with heat.

I don't know what the answer is, but I can guarantee you that it is NOT treaded tires. We are getting requests for more and more cut & prepped treaded kart tires, almost on a daily basis at this point (and it's still winter up here in the norf!)


-----
🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
31 years of service to the karting industry
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
Click to expand...
In the south it does, even with prep. Reason why lots of JR1 run the take offs of the uncut adult tires. Tire tread, along with shoulders, reduced, but with a tougher cured tire.
 
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