Track Tac

oil pag vers synthetic

grandpas garage

grandpas garage

Member
Good morning to all looking to change from running pag oil to synthetic [ curently running thor medium flathead purple plate]
was just wondering what viscosity to run in synthetic.

PS motor was just refresed just dyno time average race 20 laps 1/8th mile track. thanks
 
Just swap it amsoil 4t. Drain it, refill and run it up to temp flush it and flush it once more to get as much of the old pag oil removed.
 
Run as light of weight as possible if you are looking for any advantage (0 weight or lighter -- check with your engine builder for his preferences.)
Most karting oils are PAG based synthetics.
If you're changing to a PAO based oil (like Briggs/Amsoil 4T), then I'd be very careful to flush the crankcase extremely well before making the change.
Once you make the change, you'll be good to go.
Again, check with your builder as 4T is considerably heavier - and your engine may not be machined to allow that thicker oil (ie valve guide clearance.)

-----
Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
30 years of service to the karting industry
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
 
The best way would be to run engine until it gets up to operating temp or at least until the block is warm.
Drain oil overnight. Put in the new oil and run it until it gets up to temp again.
Drain it and put in another helping of the new oil and go racing.

Next best way would be to run engine until it gets up to operating temp or at least until the block is warm.
Drain oil overnight. Put in the new oil and run go race.
 
There's nothing worse than a Kart oil with no rust inhibitors.
The engine will rust internally.
We are using Tribodyn in 0w20.
 
I gave up on the hoopla of "kart racing" oils years ago and have been running plain HD30 Pennzoil in my sons clone, 14 races and it still looked new on teardown. You do not need a overpriced karting oil in these things, especially if running gas. I love the smell of FHS or Powerplus but it ain't worth $15/quart.
 
Back in my days wrenching flatheads, I took one, flushed the bejesus out of the crankcase, and ran 5w30 (if memory serves) full synthetic Castrol in it. Ran it a whole season with no problems (and no signs of rust when the builder tore it down). Only thing I had to do was give the builder a quart for post build dyno testing, lol. He didn't recommend it to other customers (to the best of my knowledge), but liked my results.
 
Theres a number of factors with a good oil, and a very good oil. Not only rust, or wear, but HP is a big one. As stated above, 5w30 and HD30 may work ok, show little signs of wear, and you can be happy. How ever the HP numbers shown with those oils, and a very specific designed karting oil (such as Sox) will be off by a minimum of .5 HP.
Once again it boils down to how good is your competition.
 
SoCo Tire Treatments said:
Theres a number of factors with a good oil, and a very good oil. Not only rust, or wear, but HP is a big one. As stated above, 5w30 and HD30 may work ok, show little signs of wear, and you can be happy. How ever the HP numbers shown with those oils, and a very specific designed karting oil (such as Sox) will be off by a minimum of .5 HP.
Once again it boils down to how good is your competition.
Click to expand...
Earl- I consider you a very trustworthy source on here, can you or have you actually seen this much power difference on a dyno proven? I'm having a hard time believing karting oil is worth that much. I'm sure the water thin, race oils free up a little power but is it even measurable on a dyno? Does it sacrifice wear for power??
 
1fasttiller said:
Earl- I consider you a very trustworthy source on here, can you or have you actually seen this much power difference on a dyno proven? I'm having a hard time believing karting oil is worth that much. I'm sure the water thin, race oils free up a little power but is it even measurable on a dyno? Does it sacrifice wear for power??
Click to expand...

From experience box stock, not overhead valve, if you are not able to see the difference you are leaving speed on the table elsewhere. I suggest taking Earl's advice to use different oil and find the speed your loosing elsewhere. The amount you use verses can't see a difference is an equal to the type of oil you use. In racing you don't know the speed your loosing until you find it.

If your not using what's the best correct oil in the right amount and see no difference, you have other setup or driving problems to find and correct.

The correct oil is not about what works best for you, it's about what is the best to use in the right amount.

Oil is the cheapest maintenance you provide. I use to change oil every time the kart came in off the track even hot laps. You spend a lot of money and time putting what you race on the track, why would anyone put anything on the track less then the best they can provide? If you can't afford the few bucks difference on oil that's one thing if you can and don't that's not a good thing to do racing. If your the fastest thing around and win all the time ok, but anything less is still less and second place effort.

Us... were happy if were the fastest of the slow guys as once said on here many years ago. ... :)
 
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SoCo Tire Treatments said:
Theres a number of factors with a good oil, and a very good oil. Not only rust, or wear, but HP is a big one. As stated above, 5w30 and HD30 may work ok, show little signs of wear, and you can be happy. How ever the HP numbers shown with those oils, and a very specific designed karting oil (such as Sox) will be off by a minimum of .5 HP.
Once again it boils down to how good is your competition.
Click to expand...
Link to this magic oil? We have dyno'd a couple different oils and never see more than .1-.2 difference. And that could probably be attributed to error % in the dyno.
 
racinnut15xm said:
Link to this magic oil? We have dyno'd a couple different oils and never see more than .1-.2 difference. And that could probably be attributed to error % in the dyno.
Click to expand...
My thoughts exactly... unless the oil is "hot" I don't honestly see it showing any measurable gains in these small engines. I'd love to see proof otherwise though! Until then, my $3.99/quart Pennzoil HD30 will get it done!
 
1fasttiller said:
My thoughts exactly... unless the oil is "hot" I don't honestly see it showing any measurable gains in these small engines. I'd love to see proof otherwise though! Until then, my $3.99/quart Pennzoil HD30 will get it done!
Click to expand...
I've put big name engine builder engine on dyno with big name oil and you'd be surprised your paying high dollar for said oil that only gives you an advantage from start to temp. Don't know of any track your racing before the advantages are already gone. Jmo. If what your using is working for you then keep on keeping on, if not then spend the money on that high dollar no advantage oil. All your paying for is to fill there pocket.
 
SoCo Tire Treatments said:
Theres a number of factors with a good oil, and a very good oil. Not only rust, or wear, but HP is a big one. As stated above, 5w30 and HD30 may work ok, show little signs of wear, and you can be happy. How ever the HP numbers shown with those oils, and a very specific designed karting oil (such as Sox) will be off by a minimum of .5 HP.
Once again it boils down to how good is your competition.
Click to expand...

I have no experience running full on synthetic in Animals. but I can assure you that my little adventure with Castrol Syntec and the flathead (it might have been 0w20 rather than 5w30, can't remember), there wasn't any HP lost. Two friends who raced at the track where that engine was mostly run were also good friends of the engine builder and actually saw the dyno sheet before I did - the race day that the engine was delivered back to me, they were, as usual, pitted next to my engine builder and both wanted to buy the engine from me. It was nice, because the driver I was supporting at the time weighed 240 lbs, so we needed all the HP we could get in box stock flathead. All 3 of us used the same engine builder, so all our engines were tested on the same dyno, so there was direct comparison among all our dyno sheets. That whole year with that engine was just an experiment, but I consider it a successful one.
 
The oil im talking about is for gas only, no alcohol motors.
Ye ive seen the difference on the dyno. Theres no magical link as i named the oil by name in my post.
Some of you may have seen only .1-.2 and thats not unusual, i never said it was .5 better than all other oils, but at .2 thats quite a difference when racing at the upper echelon of karting.
 
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