points drops ?

foreverfaster

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I don't have my rule book with me, not sure if it is even part of the standard rules. (akra) but was asked how this works

The track has one drop for each driver, so if my lowest score was 90 that gets dropped,
lets say the guy leading the points lowest score was a 180.. if my drop of 90 puts me ahead of him in the overall points standings.. is that really fair.. i would hate to be either guy,.. knowing a score adjustment took a championship away...

thoughts and comments please
 
I don't have my rule book with me, not sure if it is even part of the standard rules. (akra) but was asked how this works

The track has one drop for each driver, so if my lowest score was 90 that gets dropped,
lets say the guy leading the points lowest score was a 180.. if my drop of 90 puts me ahead of him in the overall points standings.. is that really fair.. i would hate to be either guy,.. knowing a score adjustment took a championship away...

thoughts and comments please

Drops should be mandatory for any track/series.

It gives you a chance to have a bad race or two, and a chance to take a week or two off if you have a wedding, vacation, etc.

Points championships shouldnt be awarded for participation, they should be awarded for who has the overall best runs in a season
 
Basically 190 is dropping a 2nd place finish.

To win a points championship against somene whose drop is a 2nd place finish means you had to win virtually every race with him finishing 2nd behind you. So if you had a 6 race series where you won 4 races, had a 2nd a 7th and your rival won 2 races and finished 2nd to you 4 times, who do you think the champion should be?
 
Basically 190 is dropping a 2nd place finish.

To win a points championship against somene whose drop is a 2nd place finish means you had to win virtually every race with him finishing 2nd behind you. So if you had a 6 race series where you won 4 races, had a 2nd a 7th and your rival won 2 races and finished 2nd to you 4 times, who do you think the champion should be?

i understand your point.. i just pulled those numbers out of the air.. this didn't actually happen, but after the points drop it did put the 2nd place season finisher within 2 points of the champ. the 2nd place guy ran one less race then the champ.
 
The only problem i have with these drop points deal is that some tracks allow you to drop a race you didnt attend, dropping a 0 isnt dropping anything.....
 
If your a racer you take your vacation off season.



Here's some examples foreverfast. If everyone dropped their lowest race and all made the same number of races how could it not work out ok? I thought it might but when I put down different numbers it seems like it will work ok. Might be some number crunch where it would not, but quickly looking at it I don't see it.


8,8,8,8,8,8,0=48 drop a 0 and total is 48 First place
7,7,7,7,7,7,8=50 drop a 7 and total is 43 Second place

8,8,8,8,8,8,0=48 drop 0 and total is 48
7,7,7,7,7,7,8=50 drop 7 and total is 43

0,8,8,8,8,8,8=48 drop 0 and total is 48
8,0,7,7,7,7,7=43 drop 0 and total is 43

7,7,6,6,6,6,0=38 Third place still comes out third place.



I personally think local Saturday night and series points racing is as much about attendance as it is about who finished first and should be so. If you put the effort in, are consistent and other racers skip races you don't, you should have the opportunity to win the points even if you never won a race. The only reason for drops is because "fast" or better racers complain.

They tell tracks they won't run at all in the tracks regular points series unless there are drops because they want to run in some blow hard promoters money grabbing series. The tracks to get kart count give in for kart count and those who are not so good and support the track every race loose out to the fast cry babies. The ONLY reason for drops and the reason drops came to be is not about vacations. It's about some racers wanting to go play in a money hungry promoters series at the expense and hurt of local Saturday night racing.

When the number of outside series increases local Saturday night participation decreases. And I don't think any track operator will disagree with it. They may look at their turn to get the series as a big money night or their only big money night all year, but the big picture is still as the number of series goes up, their yearly kart count and profits goes down. There is no way when the number of series increases profits will not go down because with any series an outsider is brought in to take a cut from profit.

If tracks would suck it in and not give in to drops demanded by winy, complaining racers who think there too good for local Saturday night racing, they'd have better over all kart counts. If your a racer you take your vacation off season. Fact is most or at least the better racers will use drops to go race somewhere else and not for vacation.

You either race for a money grabbing promoters series points and payout with fill in racing at your local Saturday night track. Or you support and race your local Saturday night track for money and points. Doing both or only running series hurts the weekly foundation of karting and racing.

I'd like to see a year when all tracks get together refuse all series racing.



If your a racer you take your vacation off season.
 
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The only problem i have with these drop points deal is that some tracks allow you to drop a race you didnt attend, dropping a 0 isnt dropping anything.....
most tracks we've race allow you to drop one race...so if you run all the races, u get to drop ur worst
if 9 races are ran, and u miss one, u count the 8 u ran....so it's the best 8 of 9 races...u don't get a 0 for missing a race, unless u miss 2
 
The only problem i have with these drop points deal is that some tracks allow you to drop a race you didnt attend, dropping a 0 isnt dropping anything.....

That is the actual purpose of a drop.

If I'm 3 races into a series and my mom ends up in the hospital in race 4, I skip the race and drop it. If I don't get to drop race 4, then I don't show up for race 5 or 6.

You get the benefit of dropping a poor performance if you make all 6 races. That is your benefit for showing up every race.
 
i understand your point.. i just pulled those numbers out of the air.. this didn't actually happen, but after the points drop it did put the 2nd place season finisher within 2 points of the champ. the 2nd place guy ran one less race then the champ.

That's exactly how it's supposed to work. The point of having a drop race is keeping more people competing for a longer period of time. It's a track business decision, not a racer equity decision.
 
That's exactly how it's supposed to work. The point of having a drop race is keeping more people competing for a longer period of time. It's a track business decision, not a racer equity decision.

You can't keep more people competing for any period of time if you reduce their need to be there to compete.

Showing up for 8 races instead of 9 is not and never will be something to increase the amount of competition.

I want you to race more at my track so I'm going to allow you to be there for 8 instead of 9 races, doesn't make any sense at all.

If some fast guy has the points locked up after 5 races there locked up after 5 races, drops become meaningless to them and they will still go elsewhere to race. The only thing a drop does is let the 'fast' guy pick and choose when they will go elsewhere to race.
 
Paul, Paul, Paul...

You'll never see the wonderful view of the forest because all those trees keep getting in your way.

If I finish 15th in the first race of a no drop series I'm not coming back. I can't win. If it's a one drop seriese I'll come back for race 2.

It's not about getting me 100% of the time, that's impossible. It's about getting me as many times as you can. It's about keeping me competing at your track as long as you can. All serieses have tremendous decline in kart counts as the series progresses. It's the nature of the business. Usually a series that starts off with a 500-600 kart count at race one will often end up in the 350 range for race 6, unless there is some major incentive for the last race (which frequently a double points night).

The promoter needs as many racers as possible competing for championships as long as possible to make as much money as possible.
 
Were replying to the same first post in this thread talking about two different things. I took the first post to be about weekly racing at your local track.

I now see your talking about promoter sponsored series races, like state races. Two different games and we have done both. Your 100% correct about everyone jumping on the band wagon in a series and then it falling off races later when way over half the racers see they have no chance to win, needing drops.

Those out of a chance to win it will either pick another series they see they can get in on the back end because of drops and maybe win, run their local or another track of their choosing or try to cherry pick some money races.

IMHO, series don't do squat for karting in general. They exist because there a way to get money out of racers by a promoter or supplier and not even have to have a track. All the promoter cares about is getting a ton of entries up front and to string it out long enough to make a good profit.

What does a drop do for local Saturday night racing?

answer: ...nothing except to insure at the end of the season kart count will be less then if there was no drop.
 
Points racing is points racing. Doesn't matter if it's a touring series like TriState, a fixed track series like King of the Clay or a local track point series. Drop races keep more racers competitive for longer into the season. I've seen local tracks drop as many as 4 races on a 14 race schedule.
 
The ONLY reason any local Saturday night track has drops is because of cry baby top of the food chain, in the click racers at the track saying if the track doesn't they will go race someplace else. The track gives them the drops and they use their drops to go race someplace else anyway.

I don't think we will agree on this because your looking at it from the top of the food chain and I'm seeing it from the bottom. Tracks, suppliers and promoters may have a different slant on it.

I can stop on it because at this point it will just be nunley bickering back and forth going on, which unless you come around to my point of view will be fruitless. ... :)

edit: I'm such a kind person i'll bow to you having the last word on it in the next posting if you like. ... :)


edit again: ... actually the way my twisted mind works I figure you will not make another argument or post in reply, because your to sharp to fall for ... :)
 
PPl have lives outside of kart racing...over a 3-4 month long point series, they have other things which come up, and without a drop, they would likely not run a complete series, thus less overall participation for the track.

I guess the ppl that run Tri-State, Mid Atlantic, South Eastern Dirt Series, and many local point series here in GA/SC that haven't figured it out yet.....LOL
 
Paul,

I don't like drops much either, but as long as the rules are known before the season starts then we all know ahead of time what they are and we're all racing by the same rules. Where I race runs a "Chase" at the end of the year, points are reset as to the points before the Chase. The guy who led the points at the end of the regular season gets 200 points, a bonus point for every night he raced, and a bonus point for every feature win. Second gets 198 points + bonus etc.. The track champion this year made just enough races to be in the Chase then won 3 of the 4 features while the 16 year old who never missed a race all year and led the points by quite a bit at the end of the regular season finished 4th because his bad luck came in the last 4 races. I hated it but we all knew how it was going to be before we started.

Scott
 
We've point raced both with and without drops. I like the tracks with drop(s) much better. Sometimes there are obligations, injuries,wrecks that you just can't avoid. Even with a drop, the advantage still goes to the guy who races every race. More races, more chances for higher finishes.
Last season we started racing in a division that we had no intention of running on the third race. We skipped the first race on purpose, it rained the second race, we decided to race that division as a second race the third week and discovered that we had a really fast kart and won that third week. So, of course we decided to race the forth week, since we were fast and we won that one too. By mid season we had 5 wins and were leading points(only because of the drop) so we finished off the season and won the championship. If not for the drop, we would not have kept racing that division (it wasn't a lot of fun).

Points racing takes a lot of the fun out of racing, it give the tracks/clubs too much power over your emotions, having no drops makes that even worse. After this year we won't be point racing at all, just racing for wins at different tracks and different divisions week to week for fun
 
Drops should be mandatory for any track/series.

It gives you a chance to have a bad race or two, and a chance to take a week or two off if you have a wedding, vacation, etc.

Points championships shouldnt be awarded for participation, they should be awarded for who has the overall best runs in a season
Do you have to attend the race in order to count as a drop in most cases? I raced 16 out of 16 and my closest competitor ran 15 out of 16. I dont understand how a 0 can be a drop if he decided to go elsewhere. Just trying to get outside opinion.
 
Do you have to attend the race in order to count as a drop in most cases? I raced 16 out of 16 and my closest competitor ran 15 out of 16. I dont understand how a 0 can be a drop if he decided to go elsewhere. Just trying to get outside opinion.

no, you can drop a 0 as a no-show.

remember though, that guy has 1 less opportunity to have a bad race, since he dropped a 0 for a no show.
 
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