Track Tac

Pontificating an equalizer .....

racer47

racer47

New member
Disclaimer: I, in no way have a clue as to what Im talking about, so take this with a grain of salt. But being of the mindset that I don't personally like racing with the throttle wide open from green to checkered ..... and do feel that I can drive as good as the next guy, and better than some. So I would like to race where throttle control and kart control come more into play.

I read a story years ago in Circle Track magazine that basically stated that a track had written their rules to prevent cheating. They did this by having no engine rules, but limiting the tires to 8" wide treaded tires. This was a dirt track and was a street stock type division.

My point being: What would happen to Box Stock classes if the rules were that you had to run 6" tires all the way around the kart? In essence, 4 left front tires. Still have the same engine rules, but wouldn't this make them less important? This would for sure require more kart control and lifting in the corners. Other than having to buy more tires and rims, what other draw backs would there be to this scenario?

Just me pontificating...... or Kishing. ..LOL

Don't call me Paul though !!
 
i do race at a WOT track...and i can see your point. I don't know if tire control is a way to go or not. but even at wot from flag to flag, lots of racer input is necessary to place well....last race we had 20 karts show, the track broke it down to 10 karts per feature so that scoring was correct. even if you spread them out, you will still have to race to place. maybe not lifting, but looking ahead you have to understand the dynamics of racing and setting yourself up to make a pass clean...and judging which way you want to go and when to make your move. it's not jsut a hold it open and hope that you get up there in front.

but like i said, i see where your coming from and the direction your asking about...sorry but i don't have that much experience with tires yet to say yes or no....
 
"Disclaimer: I, in no way have a clue as to what Im talking about, so take this with a grain of salt."

I like yer style Sir. ... :)

Your question of what would happen?

answer: Many would complain, cry and moan: and the same racers would run up front.
 
There was a saying once, maybe you remember it maybe you don't, but it went like this; if money grew on trees the smart birds would still get it all.

The talent that it takes to be up front with eight inch tires, will be the talent that is needed to be up front with six inch tires. It might tighten up the difference between fast time and slow time, but the best mechanic, setup man, driver will still be up front.

I was at a race once, just watching, and wonder if I could compete with the drivers of the day. The karts were so much faster than when I was racing. Bigger tires, stronger motors, much better karts. I expressed this to a longtime friend standing next to me. I think, he said, in your day you were one of the fastest, if they had these karts in your day, the results would be pretty much the same.

From the desk of Al Nunley
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory.(Al Nunley
 
My thought process was that the narrow tires would not grip as well no matter how you prep them and the karts would slip and slide a little more. Promoting a wider groove and get rid of the follow the leader knock him out on the last lap.
 
If they don't grip as well there is only one result possible.

Everyone will be going slower and the one who gets the best grip, on the correct tire, at the right time, will go faster and have a better chance to win.

I think I see what your trying to do. Make it fun and slip and slid around with more motor then the tires can hold in. Am I close?

???????????

____________________________________


I'll assume I'm close. I'm still going to be able to slip and slide around less then you will, because i'm better at it then YOU ARE. ... :) yep... I guess the game is still the same, even if ya just threw in a bunch of slip and slide. Now all ya have to figure out is, is it going to be fast nuff and dangerous enough to hold everyone's interest? I'm thinking now part of the equation no matter how much nobody wants to NOT get hurt, is the level of potential to GET HURT?

I talked to an old drinking buddy a few years back about fishing on Lake Erie. He told me they still go out past the breakers out of sight of land in their 14 foot fishing boat. WHY you ask? Because it's exciting and there putting their lives on the line, every time they go fishing. I guess to some you ain't alive unless you can kiss death on the butt. ... :)
 
Racer47, sounds like you need to get into some of the high HP racing of the UAS, throttle control comes into play tying to hook a 70 HP Jawa or 450 MX engine, 250 MX or Twin anything, and if you slide a little momentum lost can be made up for. You have probably seen it in your area already, and it's only getting bigger. If the thrill factor means anything as Paul alluded to, at PK in S.C. the fastest kart was running 85 mph at the end of the long straight, that's puckering up for that kiss that Paul mentioned. Jon
 
I remember that Circle Track article too. The idea was racers wouldn't spend so much on engines if they couldn't get power to the ground. I think the specified tires were hard.

I wonder if that track is still using those rules. Racers are always lobbying for racier parts, and some promoters have trouble saying "no". It would be good to find out what happened - that would answer your question.

I agree that mostly the same people will run up front no matter what the rules are. I also suspect that spending doesn't decrease - it just gets applied in different areas. But if a track can effectively manage cost creep then it's more likely to attract and keep new and small budget teams.

I'd rather see the guys who want to "kiss death on the butt" move up to a faster class, instead of opening up the rules in a lower class to make it faster.
 
Jon Brogden said:
Racer47, sounds like you need to get into some of the high HP racing of the UAS, throttle control comes into play tying to hook a 70 HP Jawa or 450 MX engine, 250 MX or Twin anything, and if you slide a little momentum lost can be made up for. You have probably seen it in your area already, and it's only getting bigger. If the thrill factor means anything as Paul alluded to, at PK in S.C. the fastest kart was running 85 mph at the end of the long straight, that's puckering up for that kiss that Paul mentioned. Jon
Click to expand...

^^^That's my thoughts exactly box stock is slow, get into open racing and you'll never look back. You'll never be able to run a jawa or 450 into the corner without using throttle control.
 
racer47 said:
Disclaimer: I, in no way have a clue as to what Im talking about, so take this with a grain of salt.

My point being: What would happen to Box Stock classes if the rules were that you had to run 6" tires all the way around the kart? In essence, 4 left front tires. Still have the same engine rules, but wouldn't this make them less important?
Click to expand...

While that would be fun....to run a UAS Kart...See my comment about keeping the engine rules the same.......
 
Rules+ money means rules= money a cam is cheaper than the latest semi cheater blueprinting. don't get totally stupid on tire size put punch them at the start, and claimer engine rules. Some will say I full of sheeet, like you i dont know naaathing
 
alvin l nunley said:
There was a saying once, maybe you remember it maybe you don't, but it went like this; if money grew on trees the smart birds would still get it all.

The talent that it takes to be up front with eight inch tires, will be the talent that is needed to be up front with six inch tires. It might tighten up the difference between fast time and slow time, but the best mechanic, setup man, driver will still be up front.

I was at a race once, just watching, and wonder if I could compete with the drivers of the day. The karts were so much faster than when I was racing. Bigger tires, stronger motors, much better karts. I expressed this to a longtime friend standing next to me. I think, he said, in your day you were one of the fastest, if they had these karts in your day, the results would be pretty much the same.

From the desk of Al Nunley
Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory.(Al Nunley
Click to expand...

That’s good stuff Al.
And I would add: Racing would likley get more expensive because the really smart people with deeper pockets would design new chassis/frames and other hardware that would respond better to the tire change......forcing others to follow suit!
JMO
 
Fivepntr said:
That’s good stuff Al.
And I would add: Racing would likley get more expensive because the really smart people with deeper pockets would design new chassis/frames and other hardware that would respond better to the tire change......forcing others to follow suit!
JMO
Click to expand...

But then, that's what's been happening for 40+ years anyhow.
 
Just get the tracks to put more water down....problem solved for very little additional expense, no extra rims.
 
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