predator with stock length arc rod questions.

joshbfashiggity

New member
Hey guys, I'm new to the forum, but not new to reading this plethora of knowledge. I built my predator with information gathered from this forum. And thanks to guys like youngengine, and sneaks posts I have learned a lot about these motors.

So from my research, the stock length arc rod cannot take a weisco piston due to the weisco pistons needing a .490 wristpin. the stock length arc rod uses the stock predator wristpin which is bigger? Correct me if I am wrong, please. But did I spend $100 on a rod that is only usable with the stock piston? Is there a oversized honda piston that can be used, if so, is the wristpin the same size as the predator? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Im open to any and all input.

Thanks,
Josh

Btw, if there are no options available there will be a arc rod for sale in the classifieds section lol
 

JPR57

Site Supporter
Yes, that rod can only be used with a piston using a stock size pin. If you are needing a rod that works with a Wiseco or J&E piston you will need part # 6255 or 6236.
 

astrowrench

Member
Josh;Before you sell the rod at a loss see if you can find a stock "hemi" piston.... will fit your rod is a shorter skirted, lighter,flattop that will work very well, somebody here may have one for you.....a thought
 

mikey56

New member
ain't nothing wrong with the stockwrist pin if you are limiting the revs that your going to shoot for. i've seen first hand (thanks jody!) what a stock wrist pin can do if subjected to high rpms....it ain't pretty! lucky the driver didn't have his engine launch into space or at the very least, his block ventilated....but if you can get away with it with your rules, get one of the ARC drop in's (JPR57 has the info)....it uses a billet rod with a wiseco piston and wristpin. ends up with zero deck height and you can make some great HP with the addition of a good clone head. i'm still debating on the hemi head....

and!!! i'm not going to be in the shop until after thanksgiving, but i'm not going to use the stock flattop or wrist pin. going with the arc drop-in....so don't sell off your rod just yet...
 

astrowrench

Member
[/Where? does he ask about the durability of the stock wrist pin or what kind of head to use????????? Also its pretty hard to say HE will get a ZERO Deck Height It doesn't work quite like that Nice add-on Mikey]
 

mikey56

New member
wrench....he said "the stock length arc rod cannot take a weisco piston due to the weisco pistons needing a .490 wristpin. the stock length arc rod uses the stock predator wristpin which is bigger?" my comment was based on what i've seen. durability is always a factor when your looking into changing any part...and sorry, have to back up...the drop in rod/piston in question can yield a zero deck height as you don't have to cut the piston. should have stated "This Rod is designed to be used with our 2.675 Piston. When used with this piston, this is drop in combo with no Honing, Boring, or Piston Cutting Required." (from NR RACING)...but i think you already knew that! thanks for the bold, red and underlined....helps wake me up this late in the afternoon with quittin time jsut around the corner!!

have to add that i've got my hemi head predator on the bench and from initial look at without the head on, the piston comes right up to the very top (no i haven't measured it), looking for all intents and purposes as if there is zero deck height. now, based on my eyeballs, if i use a stock length billet rod and a wiseco piston, then it should come up the same....not trying to argue or to sound like i don't know, but that to me is purt-near zero to me!!

:eek:
 

joshbfashiggity

New member
Jpr57, thanks for the quick reply.

Mikey56, thanks for the good defense lol. Definitely pm me if you want to get rid of the flat top piston.

I don't race yet, but I am having fun taking a tiller motor and turning it into a "slobbering alcoholic"
Its definitely a good feeling to have guys at the track compliment my engine, especially since I did everything myself and they have professionally built motors.I have an 18cc Honda espec head milled .065 (or .050, can't remember) and my homemade hack job of a port job. Its got some good power. I got a black mamba cam from Barry that I hope to install this weekend with some 26lb springs and ss valves. Its got a lot of time and money into it, but its safer than riding motorcycles.

With that being said... they do have a couple hemi predators at my local hf. My son needs a new engine lol.
 

astrowrench

Member
Mikey where are you going to get a 3.308 billet rod with a .490 wrist pin size? That gives you the correct compression height?????? purt near 0 chance
wrench....he said "the stock length arc rod cannot take a weisco piston due to the weisco pistons needing a .490 wristpin. the stock length arc rod uses the stock predator wristpin which is bigger?" my comment was based on what i've seen. durability is always a factor when your looking into changing any part...and sorry, have to back up...the drop in rod/piston in question can yield a zero deck height as you don't have to cut the piston. should have stated "This Rod is designed to be used with our 2.675 Piston. When used with this piston, this is drop in combo with no Honing, Boring, or Piston Cutting Required." (from NR RACING)...but i think you already knew that! thanks for the bold, red and underlined....helps wake me up this late in the afternoon with quittin time jsut around the corner!!

have to add that i've got my hemi head predator on the bench and from initial look at without the head on, the piston comes right up to the very top (no i haven't measured it), looking for all intents and purposes as if there is zero deck height. now, based on my eyeballs, if i use a stock length billet rod and a wiseco piston, then it should come up the same....not trying to argue or to sound like i don't know, but that to me is purt-near zero to me!!

:eek:
 

mikey56

New member
dave....I read your e-mail and although I'm not an expert in all things mechanical and I don't know it all, you apparently wish to show others how much I don't know. so be it. I have looked for myself and there are no stock length billet rids with the 490 wrist pin. so I stand corrected and I thank you for showing my obvious errors and my ignorance on things karting. while I love to argue the merits of karting and learn from it (which you have taught me that there are no stock 3.308 rods fitted for the wiseco piston). . i'll seek information and/or advise from somewhere else so that I don't bother you with my ignorance. and please, don't come back and attempt to justify the way you sounded in your e-mail as I read every word and understand EXACTLY what you meant.....thank you, so long, see ya, later dude, hasta la vista baby!!!

joshbfashiggity .... please pm me after Christmas, the piston is yours...along with the wrist pin. I'm going with the ARC combo and getting a 14cc head done up for it by a friend....
 

astrowrench

Member
Mikey I am not trying to break your stones But No one here wants to see somebody end up with wrong info...That is why I suggested he keep his rod which he paid for and possibly get a hemi piston.You put a lot of info out here right or wrong....People can get easily confused I think beside myself and a few others..... Very FEW TRUE BUILDERS will share their experience ...And we cant share it All or we would be out of business No Justification here just the plain truthful facts.Sorry if it hurts....... later dude
dave....I read your e-mail and although I'm not an expert in all things mechanical and I don't know it all, you apparently wish to show others how much I don't know. so be it. I have looked for myself and there are no stock length billet rids with the 490 wrist pin. so I stand corrected and I thank you for showing my obvious errors and my ignorance on things karting. while I love to argue the merits of karting and learn from it (which you have taught me that there are no stock 3.308 rods fitted for the wiseco piston). . i'll seek information and/or advise from somewhere else so that I don't bother you with my ignorance. and please, don't come back and attempt to justify the way you sounded in your e-mail as I read every word and understand EXACTLY what you meant.....thank you, so long, see ya, later dude, hasta la vista baby!!!

joshbfashiggity .... please pm me after Christmas, the piston is yours...along with the wrist pin. I'm going with the ARC combo and getting a 14cc head done up for it by a friend....
 

mikey56

New member
last comment...and I DO NOT MEAN ANY DISREPECT.....I showed my son the pics you sent and he was impressed. he asked me to ask you what you charged and what kind of work you did to the head....to quote you " I wonder whether or not to provide YOU with a head only too see it ripped apart or Belittled by someone who has practically no real mechanical experience".....I have in no way EVER ripped anyone off for the work that they do. I find that it is more of me showing them that I value their work by using it and having fun. I have NEVER BELITTLED anyone who was nice to me and that is honest in dealing with me. as far as mechanical experience, you are 100 percent right. I have no mechanical experience when it comes to metal work. but with that being said, I have built race engines for years....late models, modified mini's and several street stock. no, I don't have the mechanical aptitude to do my own heads or blocks, I rely on others that know more than me. if I find that I'm worng, I will own up to my mistakes and publically apologize for it (as I did in this post). but to be "talked" to like you did to me was uncalled for. you don't want to do a head for me? fine, you could have said "I don't have the time" or "Sorry, but I can't right now".....no, instead you tried to make it personal.

Dave, your a good guy and I do appreciate your giving me the right info on the rod and passing that along to others and especially showing me the fantastic work that you did on that head....it was beautiful!!, but you should get to know others before treating them like they are not on your level of expertise.

just so you know, I have a degree in automotive technology (which doesn't include any metal work) and an advanced degrees in Computer Sciences and Criminal Justice. I NEVER claim to be perfect, nor do I claim to know it all and if I'm found in error, I learn and I let everyone know that I was wrong.

no hard feelings, i'll still post what I think is the right stuff and if you or others show me to be wrong then ain't nuttin but a thing!! we race, we live, we have fun.......

take care!!
 

mikey56

New member
and I sincerely accept your apology and please forgive me for posting erroneous information concerning the rods. I humbly apologize to everyone for not researching the information first....like I said....we race, we live, we learn and we have fun!
 
I must say, I haven't had any problems with a stock Predator piston..and I have punished them. I will let everyone know when I break one though.. LOL
 
Old post I know but I also have done the drop in from arc on all my motors.this new build I am using the 3.308 rod and after checking in the hole it is only at .015 not bad but also have my head milled .080 so going to leave the deck alone and go from there.
 

Yakattack

Member
One combo I really like is a NON Hemi block, Honda or clone crank, Flat top Hemi piston this usually ends up .090 in the hole, couple that with a Honda 3.403 Rod and that puts you at .010 pop-up...
Perfect for a .045 thick gasket...
Semi long Rod combo... Revs quick and pulls hard out of the corners...
 
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