Predators, Clones and all things in between.....

mikey56

New member
Things that I would appreciate clarification on some things and comments on others....

Cams in the predators:
1. old style uses a predator specific cam.
2. hemi head can use the 196 cams
3. the so called "big valve" head predator....what cams do they use?

Predator crankshafts:
1. is there a difference in the throw of the old style, hemi head and big valve head predator cranks? I'm hearing that the use of the newer predator blocks with the old style crank gives you a pert-near zero deck height. can anyone share on this?

Oils:
now, I ain't opening a can of worms on what is better, has more particles per billion, extra wear protection or any of that. I would just appreciate a little honesty from those that know about oils....
1. why do automotive oils work just as well as the kart oils (such as thor or fhs or any of the others)? please, I'm not asking about what the oils contain or don't contain. just a simple answer!
2. contrary to what is being told by some on here, am I correct in assuming that there is not one oil brand out there, regardless of chemical makeup, that actually produces any horsepower whatsoever?
3. wouldn't it be more true to say that the better grade of oil, the less resistance the moving parts of the motor has to fight against and there for, it doesn't take that extra horsepower to move the item through the oil, thus freeing up the horsepower to be "used" elsewhere?

Clones, Predators, chassis and all the like...
1. with the availability of the predators and clones, why is it that some think that the clone is an exercise in frustration and yet will say that the predator is the way to go when it comes to maintaining a stock type class?
2. how is it that one person says that they can run a stock rod motor up into the 8K range for hours and never harm the rod and others will say that they started the motor, idled it at 1500 rpm for two seconds and the rod blew all over the shop?
3. why do we only hear about one or two flywheel explosions and then every jumps on the bandwagon and starts claiming that you have to have a billet aluminum or steel flywheel or risk sudden and permanent death...but we've never actually heard of any injuries and if it's so bad, why do some of the "lower" classes not require them?
4. why do some shout tires, tires, tires and you never hear them say anything about motors, motors, motors...other than you can have a crap motor and a crap setup and if you use snake-oil prep you will win every time out?
5. how can some honestly say that they are selling, say a 2010 chassis, that has "only" 5 races on it? when we all know that they bought it, set it up and raced the thing for at least one season? doesn't this strike anyone else that they are thinking that we are all so blind and dumb to think that they paid $2200 for a new chassis and only raced it 5 times and now want to sell it for $800?
6. same with championships...."buy my chassis!! it's a 1999 with 10 races on it and I won five tracks championships and 18 national events!!" ... doesn't it strike anyone as odd that if they won championships like that, they wouldn't want to sell a chassis with such a good history behind it?
7. why is it that when someone mentions a problem with the setup of their kart, that someone invariably starts asking if they used brand 'x' oil or if they had the right kind of fuel line (just as an example!)....half the time I think that some don't read the whole post before they start answering about tire prep and stagger when the poster wanted to know what brand of air filter to use....

I know that some will laugh and say that I don't know what I'm talking about...others might say that I've had too much time on my hands to think right....others might read this and ask why they didn't think of this sooner.....

I'm all for reading, measuring, reading more, looking at things differently and maybe I didn't grow up in a kart racing environment....but lets all face facts...this could easily be a forum on computers and the poster is asking what the difference is between a megabyte and a gigabyte...and your going to get someone to say that it doesn't make any difference unless they are using a sony monitor!!

last is the prices that are being advertised all over the place...NOT necessarily here on Bob's, but every where!!....some will sell a 2011 chassis for $800, then a 1999 banshee is being sold for $1200 and then some will say that they have a 2001 with 3 races on it and they want $2200? or they say that the chassis is race ready and all you have to add is a motor, seat, wheels/tires, tach, fuel cell....but it's a roller and race ready!!!

last....and I promise!!.....why is it that some on here will fill out their profiles so that we can all know who we are talking to and some think that it's a national secret; death if revealed, but they want you to buy their stuff?? always bugs the crap out of me that they are asking all of us to buy stuff on blind faith and they won't ever tell you where they are from!!!

nuff!! maybe I needed to go to work today instead of thinking!! lol!! be safe everyone!!
 

joshbfashiggity

New member
Nice post. Very true. Remember tho..... tires tires tires, especially when answering questions pertaining to engine related questions in the engine section of the forum lol. Most forums (regardless of the topic )are pretty much the same. Everyone knows everything, and then most know more than everyone else
 

Jncyall

Member
Gee, Mikey, you trying to tie up all the unanswered questions before the end of the year! Good luck with that! Looking forward to 2014!
 

mikey56

New member
thanks!! I'm really excited about the new racing season coming up....we "tested" our building skills this past season and found some areas that need attention and some that we hit right off the bat....now we are going full tilt on our motors and actually have brought in two new rookie racers to the fold and these kids are all hyped up and wanting to race right now!! but we're teaching them the basics and the ground rules and putting them on the stadium parking lot (were we do our testing) to get them seat time....

I hope and wish everyone on Bob's the very happiest New Year and nothing but the best for 2014!!
 

msquiers

Member
I've wondered and pondered on a lot of those same questions. If you ever figure them out please tell me the answers and how you got them. I've been in this sport for better than 35 years and learn something new every day. It's just comical to listen to one of these 90 day wonders that have already got it all figured out. They are in for a hard case of reality!!! Oh well, it is entertaining to say the least and always good for a laugh!!
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
lots of good questions.
I in all honesty, I do have a pair of 2001 chassis one has been rode hard, the other has never had 1 single component bolted on. I believe there numbers 6 and 7.
That's all I got for answers.
 
I can share on the flywheel problems, I had a magnet fly off at probably 5000 to 5500 in the garage, and a friend had one explode.
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
First 2. I think answer is yes. last one, I don't buy without profile. Obviously they think you can't find anything out about them with out a profile.
oil ya gotta have it.
cost is relative, some people are just disillusioned.
 

mikey56

New member
when I was active duty, I had more time in the latrine than some of those 90 day wonder 2nd lieutenants that were supposed to be "our leaders"!!! lol!! got a friend right now that thinks he is going to slap a hemi head predator on a frame, add a header and a new air filter and do the "Richard Petty" thing.....you know...7 championships, 200 wins....little does he realize that I'm working on a "Dale Sr"..........."didn't mean to wreck him...I only wanted to rattle his cage".....

:eek:
 

XXX#40

2A supporter
I have to question championships against 1 or 2 karts, IMO you didnt win anything.
when I was young sitting on the fender of my grandfathers stock car, him and my uncle pounded into my head
"Your only as good as the competition you race against"
 

mikey56

New member
my going rate for asking questions is $35.00....so if i read the numbers right, then you owe me $10.00 for asking them! lol!!! and due to the length of the discussions that some have concerning the right way or the wrong way to put a piston in, the most fav-o-rite brand of oil, whether prepping a tire or not prepping a tire with (insert brand of cancer causing crud) is or isn't worth a dime when it comes to altering the molecular stability of the o ring gasket holding the whatchamacallit to the thingamobob.....i think my questions are right in line!!
 

racer47

New member
I have to question championships against 1 or 2 karts, IMO you didnt win anything.
when I was young sitting on the fender of my grandfathers stock car, him and my uncle pounded into my head
"Your only as good as the competition you race against"

A few years ago when I was racing asphalt cars, our track season was over. 3 of us from my division decided to go about 2 hours south to another track since their season hadn't ended yet. We pull into the pit area and we are met by one of the local drivers. He says "don't come down here thinking you are gonna beat us on this track". We smiled and told him we were just there to have fun. We qualified 1-2-3 and had a back and forth race all by ourselves. (except when we were lapping the slower locals) He wouldn't even speak to us the rest of the night. Oh well ....... He was a big fish in a small pond.
 
I have not found the crank strokes to be much different. The old style 60730 have bigger crank bearing and will not just "plug N play" into a 60363. Where as the 60363 crank will fit any clone/Honda . What is different is the "in the hole" position of the piston. The 60730 sits much deeper (.035"+) and has a dish piston. The 60363 sits at .020" or less. An Arc .020" (6271) long rod will bring the 60363 to near .000-.005" "in the hole". Arc's .020" (6256) for the 60730 will still be .010"-.012" in the hole. So when racers put the 60730 crank into a 60363 it appears to be stroked. I don't believe it is...JMO
 
Arc now makes a short rod (6236 and 6234) for both motors that will drop the Wiseco 2.76" piston to .000" or close, so no need to mill the piston or deck the block...
 
Let me say this about karting/splash system oils....ZINC..I don't believe that " filter type" detergent auto oils work as well as Thor ,Briggs, or any other karting specific oils...
 
There has been fewer flywheel explosions w/injuries cause we saw this danger and got on this early. Many of us remember the Briggs flywheel issues in the 60's. I'd like to think we were "Proactive" and saved injuries...
 
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