Prepping
- Thread starter pipehauler
- Start date
Can you win races without prep, yes. Can you win anything more then a local non-money winning show with out prep, yes. Anything more then then that, no. You can still tune on the karts today, but there is more speed to be found in the tires then there is in the kart. That is the reality of kart racing today. In 1997, you could out tune and out drive your fellow racers. Today, you can stick a very "average" wheel man in a kart with a good tire man and they can win bigger races. I don't think you can pull that off at a big show. The reason you can pull off a win without prep at a small local show is the chances of someone hitting the prep right are less as most of the time the "better" tire guys and customers are following a couple hundred to win race rather then chasing a trophy or their entry fee back. Right or wrong it is what karting has become. Just remember, 1997 isn't all roses either, revisionist history can be a good thing and a bad thing.
paulkish
old fart
I have no reason to ask Mike. IMHO, both Jim and Mike are saying there's a lot that can be done to hook up a kart other then prepping, which is ignored because of a lack of basic setup skills. Reading about both needed skills on here, I think knowing about how to prep tires is both harder to learn and more expensive to learn, then adjusting your chassis. This about racing on here and it's not about which is better but what combination is faster. ... thinking about it if I could fine tune by altering tire grip or altering how the chassis moves weight, I'd choose altering grip. But to get to the point of only needing to fine tune, both are necessary. If I was at the point of just needing to finely fine tune, then a slight chassis adjustment would probably do the trick. The point I think both Jim and Mike are saying is too many learn about prep first. ... hummmm.... if it's needed and it's harder to learn, then maybe that's the way it needs to be and should be?
As far as the original question goes about hard or soft tires, JWD first explained it years ago about hard and soft tires. You match the compound to the abrasiveness of the track. Abrasive track needs harder tires and a less abrasive track can take softer tires. That was true way back then and it's still true today.
SoCo Tire Treatments
Moderator
What are you guys going to do when your chassis is at its optimum working set up, and the guys whos whipping your butt are prepping and blowing by you?
A chassis has a sweet spot where it works their very best, minor camber and cross adjustments excluded. How do you make more speed then? Answer is tires and chemical.
Ban prep Jim , ive asked before and you never answered, how do you propose to do this and check PROPERLY for it?
A chassis has a sweet spot where it works their very best, minor camber and cross adjustments excluded. How do you make more speed then? Answer is tires and chemical.
Ban prep Jim , ive asked before and you never answered, how do you propose to do this and check PROPERLY for it?
ONEHARDHEAD
Member
Why don't we ask (what's left of) WKA their stance on banning prep?
Not to make this confuseing for anyone paul did explain it very well i think i had said before all tires have a letter or numbers on them which has a small range of the duro numbers maybe as long as that checked out to those numbers you would be good to go looks like there are so many preps out there now that its only making it harder to do i have bought chassis , engines , clutches ect. With the same driver [and he can drive] thinking that know two are the same thats why you would always race the track conditions we might be on 33 s and another fast guy might be on 44 s on the same race night passing each other at each end of the track thats when your haveing fun ! To date i have not seen or heard of any records set because of prepping like paul said match the tire to the track conditions and adjust your set up [hopefully in the right direction lol!] and your good to go tires are very important we do do alot of work on them at home and at the tracks thats all part of raceing maybe this helps someone by by
XXX#40
2A supporter
We only have a small window on duro for Burris 33a's(there are no 33's allowed) 44's are junk your better off with 55's, but if you need a tire softer than a 55 but harder than 33 the only way to get there is prep IMO burris are the easiest tire to work with, and in our area most tracks have a 33a or b33a rule, so during the heat of the summer this one track takes the hardest 33 you can find, I fix those by aging the tire with a little gasoline and mother nature, but this same track in the spring and late fall will take a tire that duro's between a 22 and 33, again the only way to get there is to prep the tires.
take 2 karts setup to optimum performance, both on 33a's one set new/cuts and another set new/cut/prepped to fire off, before the unprepped set reaches temp, the prepped kart will have such an advantage that the other kart wont catch them before the race is over
Yes xxx40 i know all those tricks my self and then some if your stuck by your track with 33a or b33a sounds like just use what you got . Dont see the problem you got some good storys but dont know if that would work all the time there are ways to build up heat in a tire that is not prepped most all of all of this talk just sounds like whoever has the most money wins no big deal so go buy your prep if you cannot figure anoher way to go faster by by
33wetherell
New member
No matter what, a non prepped tire will never fire like a prepped tire that's just logic if u really have been in karting as long as you say you have, you should know that's no brainer.
XXX#40
2A supporter
150 feature wins at about 8 different tracks and 10 track championships at 3 different tracks do we need to be faster Jim?
We have to use 33a's thats the track rule, but when the track is damp a 22 would work, but guess what? we have a 33 rule, so we soften 33's
Hot box or tire warmers, doesnt matter which one you use, sitting on the grid waiting to go out your tires will cool
I would like to hang on the fence where your going to race this summer just to see the look on your face, I will be working in Lexington Ky for the next few years, so what track are you going to be running?
fastbraden11
Last of the originals
maxxis has no numbers to go by for duro,date code only
LOL...good answer...
Burris doesnt either on the side of the tire, just the compound number and date code like maxxis. Maxxis you have your ht3 and others telling you the compound like burris has ss33a or others. Dont know where this guy sees the duro on the side of a tire anywhere unless i misunderstood that. Yea each compound has a duro range they usually come in, but not written on the side
SoCo Tire Treatments
Moderator
And only the 1 compound.
He is trying to compare apples to oranges. Burris racing is based around principles that the Burris tire company as well as Hoosier have come up with. Provide different compounds for different conditions. I'm sure he isn't the only Burris racer under the impression prep has no place. I would love to see him come run a maxxis, firestone, vega, unilli, or king tire rule. He wouldn't know what to do with himself. There are few times I can remember an unprepared tire working in 15 years of racing.
You can't generalize karting to just burris racing or just southern tire rule racing. Wka tried and failed. There are MORE EXPENSIVE ways to beat a no prep rule. So dont get me started. You want to spend more money to outrun the ones who will put the money up for a prep that simple rules and duro checks will not catch be my guest keep riding the no prep horse. Its not going away/will never go away. There are motor rules in place so that you can only do soo much. But guess what there are builders doing things in grey areas and even areas that are wrong but not looked at. Go beat that horse. Prepping is much the same put a rule and prep guys will find a rule in the grey area or around it. Simple as that. Hot lap 2 will beat sniffer been there done that. The base of most preps. Lab tests cost money. MONEY tracks will not put up to test tires every week. Guess who will pay. The racers. So either way you go racing will cost money one way or the other. If it was free everyone would do it.
You can't generalize karting to just burris racing or just southern tire rule racing. Wka tried and failed. There are MORE EXPENSIVE ways to beat a no prep rule. So dont get me started. You want to spend more money to outrun the ones who will put the money up for a prep that simple rules and duro checks will not catch be my guest keep riding the no prep horse. Its not going away/will never go away. There are motor rules in place so that you can only do soo much. But guess what there are builders doing things in grey areas and even areas that are wrong but not looked at. Go beat that horse. Prepping is much the same put a rule and prep guys will find a rule in the grey area or around it. Simple as that. Hot lap 2 will beat sniffer been there done that. The base of most preps. Lab tests cost money. MONEY tracks will not put up to test tires every week. Guess who will pay. The racers. So either way you go racing will cost money one way or the other. If it was free everyone would do it.
rebsfan4
Member
Nope......That horse is on his last breath.
Sounds very simple to me if your track has certain rules about certain tires just go by there rules dont hang on the fence to long ! I do know the difference between non prep and no prep i am not trying to argue about this or that like i said before i have not seen any track records set buy useing prep anywhere moew ! I thought that was a good one lol!