primary prep question

paulkish

Premium User
With preps being open karting when you arrive at the track with known close tire duro's and basic inside and outside prepping taken care of, wouldn't the standard at track wipe on simply be the old standard Toluene and ATF?
 

paulkish

Premium User
hummmm... may have hit on something prep folks don't want to talk about?

or... dumb post not worth commenting on?

If not asking again, how much ATF do you put to a quart of Toluene?

Another question assuming the first question ain't that dumb because of who told me about it. What ATF is best to use and do you mix in different ATF's for different track conditions?
 
Paul I feel like anymore people that are using homebrews are less and less. Everyone claims the store bought stuff is "better" for us and doesn't damage the tire. And like you have found by posting this question very few have knowledge of the homebrew game, the few that do rarely respond anymore
 

paulkish

Premium User
Paul I feel like anymore people that are using homebrews are less and less. Everyone claims the store bought stuff is "better" for us and doesn't damage the tire. And like you have found by posting this question very few have knowledge of the homebrew game, the few that do rarely respond anymore
interesting. thanks
 
He's onto part of it, I didn't comment because I have NO experience with home brew other than mineral spirits, wd40, simple green, and not mixed.
 

Cope1

Member
Paul I will see if I can find in my notes from 15 years ago what I used and amounts. Toulene, xylene, marvel mystery oil, vmp naptha, wd40, atf, hotlap 2 were the main things I had ever used in varying combinations. If my memory is correct I also was told about something involving kerosene or diesel don't remember which for sure and never pursued it.
 

paulkish

Premium User
Paul I will see if I can find in my notes from 15 years ago what I used and amounts. Toulene, xylene, marvel mystery oil, vmp naptha, wd40, atf, hotlap 2 were the main things I had ever used in varying combinations. If my memory is correct I also was told about something involving kerosene or diesel don't remember which for sure and never pursued it.
I'm mainly asking about how much ATF to put in the Toluene

Years ago I was told Toluene outside, xylene inside and for grip add ATF.

That's pretty simple and always figured the ATF added to the Toluene for a wipe but never knew or tested how much ATF to mix in.

Soften either inside or out and have a wipe too with only three chemicals. Seems too easy to be true but i'd never doubt who told me.
 
Toluene and xylene are very harsh preps and kill the rubber, the ATF is doing nothing more than putting some conditioning oil back into the rubber. I believe this type of prep is what most "Red" preps were based off of and still work today but those using it ain't tellin and those not using it don't know!

I use a can of the B12 Berrymans from the parts store, mixed with either WD40 or some black sand for a killer fire-off prep. Builds bite in the tire very fast!
 

paulkish

Premium User
OK ??? ... :)

If anyone would PM me with the amount of ATF to put in for varying conditions and/or to not destroy the tire with either, I wouldn't mind? ... :)
 
The mix you are referring to was more used internally than externally years ago, and some still internally use to this day.
As Chris mentioned, if used externally, Daytona be the track where most likely used.
As for mix ratio, that all depends on what you wanting to do to the tire. Anybody can mix something, but the correct mix can make all the difference in being at the front or running mid pack.
 

CarlsonMotorsports

Premium User
Toluene will soften and drive other preps into the rubber.
ATF is used as an oil additive to put oils back in the rubber. It also softens some, and adds bite.

More toluene = more softening.
More ATF = more conditioning/oils.

Play with the amounts that you want to use.
Start with a blend of around 16 ounces of ATF : 48 ounces of toluene will make 1 gal.

There are MANY different "red" preps that people use and I seriously doubt that two of them are the same.
I know that our Pink Panther is "similar" to Jerry Welch's red, Sheldon Gecker's red, and SBR's red from the late 80's early '90s.
We still offer it, but it is not the chemicals that you have listed.


-----
🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
31 years of service to the karting industry
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
 
Toluene will soften and drive other preps into the rubber.
ATF is used as an oil additive to put oils back in the rubber. It also softens some, and adds bite.

More toluene = more softening.
More ATF = more conditioning/oils.

Play with the amounts that you want to use.
Start with a blend of around 16 ounces of ATF : 48 ounces of toluene will make 1 gal.

There are MANY different "red" preps that people use and I seriously doubt that two of them are the same.
I know that our Pink Panther is "similar" to Jerry Welch's red, Sheldon Gecker's red, and SBR's red from the late 80's early '90s.
We still offer it, but it is not the chemicals that you have listed.


-----
🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
31 years of service to the karting industry
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
Good info Brian but I have to ask how 16oz and 48oz can equal 128oz (1 gallon)? :)
 

paulkish

Premium User
The mix you are referring to was more used internally than externally years ago, and some still internally use to this day.
As Chris mentioned, if used externally, Daytona be the track where most likely used.
As for mix ratio, that all depends on what you wanting to do to the tire. Anybody can mix something, but the correct mix can make all the difference in being at the front or running mid pack.
What observed track conditions might show a need for more ATF and what would make you think less is needed?
 

paulkish

Premium User
What observed track conditions might show a need for more ATF and what would make you think less is needed?
This might/maybe/prol not help Prep sellers since the ATF angle has been entered.

You all seem to sell a red prep. Would you offer advice to your customers about maybe adding more, a specific amount maybe, of ATF when certain track conditions warrant it? If you don't I'm thinking it's then about wipe more on or use more rather then alter what your using. But I don't know and thought it might be interesting to see what answers might be given. ??????

Maybe something like x amount more usually for indoors or maybe wet conditions, or maybe a dust slick track, or maybe a sandy track? ?????? I'm into observed track and on track generalities which would indicate to me shifting adjustments and prep in a direction to solve problems.

I think and know from experience it's humanly impossible to remember all the do this to fix that and do that to fix this things, along with not having enough paper in the world or a big enough computer to store all needed info. ... :)

Might it be something new not normally done to add more ATF to your wipe when track conditions warrant it? ... might even be a secret thing to do??? or.... heck maybe nobody ever thought about doing it???? nawwwww..... ??????

Maybe it's a/the reason why you might have different wipes for different track conditions, with the real difference being the amount of ATF in the mix. ????
 
Last edited:
Top