Pushing on exit

thebigo

Member
Grandson is 15 yo, started purple plate Honda clone racing in 2020, about 6 race nights and 2021, 6 race nights.
Chassis - 2005 Millenium Tempest (1-1/4" tube). 45% front, 55% left and 54% cross, LF .5 camber, 8 castor, 0 toe. RH -2.75 camber, 12 castor, 1/16 toe out (accutoe which is now broken)
Tires - Burris 33s takeoffs, 58 - 60 duro, 1-1/2 front and rear staggers. 4-1/2 psi left side and 5-1/2 psi rights. As per top runner where I got the tires from, he helps me with tire prep and overall tire program.
Track - 1/9th tan color clay banked, my guess 3-4 degrees, tacky most of the time.
Performance - runs in P3 to P6 consistently. Excellent for a rookie. I follow "No Goat" instructions and ask questions especially top runners in the same class.

Problem - No matter what I try, the kart pushes about a kart width on exit, which allows the competition to have the inside. Entry is good, so is the center of the turn. Seems when he feathers the throttle from the center to exit, the front end does not respond. He tried bumping the throttle to attempt to swing the ass end around but no improvement. I adjusted rear stagger up and even front stagger. Results were not enough to close the inside. So is it driver or setup?
Thank you in advance. As suggested by "Racing Promoter" I found someone to help with tire program.
 
I would go up to 46-46.5 and lay the RF down to -2.5. Add nose will help the kart rotate. Putting more contact patch on the racing surface should help the kart turn as well, as long as you scale the kart. What track are you racing at. You might find someone in hear that knows the track a little better.
 

thebigo

Member
I would go up to 46-46.5 and lay the RF down to -2.5. Add nose will help the kart rotate. Putting more contact patch on the racing surface should help the kart turn as well, as long as you scale the kart. What track are you racing at. You might find someone in hear that knows the track a little better.
We don't race for three weeks, so I'm taking everyone's suggestions and try them one-at-a-time and record the outcome. I scale the kart for every change and mark down the %ages. The track is "Route1 Raceway" located in southern Ontario Canada, across the pond from Detroit.
 

XXX#40

2A supporter
I had the cross up in increments all the way to 62% and it would push on entry, center and exit. I have most of the spacers on the bottom at the RF and only 2 spacers on the LF.
But you was always way too low on nose.
And find another tire guy, 33s are way too hard at 58-60 for the track you describe
You do no goats is stuff he took from here right?
 

XXX#40

2A supporter
I had the cross up in increments all the way to 62% and it would push on entry, center and exit. I have most of the spacers on the bottom at the RF and only 2 spacers on the LF.
Reset the front spindles with equal washers top and bottom on both sides
 
A lot of good advice from some guys who have been around (and know) right here.

Def. More nose -- get that seat slid forward, and get your tires softer for sure.
More bite in the tires (not just softer) will amplify what the chassis is doing.
You'll still need to work on balance and set-up, but your corner speeds will improve dramatically with more bite in the tires.
Question: When you duro-ed the tires, are they very thin cut, or were they recently refinished? If very thin, you might be hitting chords when checking. If they haven't been refinished, and they've had harsh preps in them previously, they may just be glazed over and need broken open again before checking with a durometer and applying any prep.
Give us a call at the shop if we can help.


-----
🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
32 years of service to the karting industry ~ 1Cor 9:24
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
 

thebigo

Member
A lot of good advice from some guys who have been around (and know) right here.
You're not kidding about good advise. But I'm a little confused because when I asked the top runners for help with the pushing concern, it was suggested to move washers from the RF top to the bottom. That reduces cross doesn't? Which is also in "NoGoats" suggestions. That's why I ended up with so many washers on the bottom of the RF. Correct me if I'm wrong, but based on some of the suggestions here, I have to move washers from the RF bottom to the top to increase cross. I may need more time to understand all this. Just hurts to see him stay with the pack and see them wait for him to exit the turn and take the inside. I appreciate your patience.
 

racing promotor

Moderator
You're not kidding about good advise. But I'm a little confused because when I asked the top runners for help with the pushing concern, it was suggested to move washers from the RF top to the bottom. That reduces cross doesn't? Which is also in "NoGoats" suggestions. That's why I ended up with so many washers on the bottom of the RF. Correct me if I'm wrong, but based on some of the suggestions here, I have to move washers from the RF bottom to the top to increase cross. I may need more time to understand all this. Just hurts to see him stay with the pack and see them wait for him to exit the turn and take the inside. I appreciate your patience.
If the only adjustment you would make to help the push, yes you would lower cross however that's not what you want to do, Jamies suggesting after making the other adjustments by rescaling, raising the nose, and less RF neg camber, when you do that increase the cross as the added cross will give the kart more drive off the turn, yes to raise cross you would take washers off the bottom and add to top to raise cross. Even out the washers first see what the cross is, as long as it's close to 58 % that's ok, If you have to move a few washers don't do it all on the RF keep it more equal move LF as well, increase nose to 46.3 %, and decrease RF neg camber to 2.5.

Good Luck !!
 

Jmuck1

Member
58% left, 46.5% nose and 58% cross 1 1/2" front stagger and 1" rear, R.R. 1/4" off rail, LR 1 1/2" off rail. .50 left camber and 2.75 right camber
 
When you scale I would be around.

46.5 nose
56 left
58 cross
.5 LF camber - 2.5 RF
8/12 caster
Like everyone has said, get bite in the tire get the duro down say 52ish maybe lower depending on how soft that track is.
Jamie, Ken, Brian. They'll keep you going the right way!
 
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