Recent purchase of used shifter Kart, Starting issue, Looking for help

cevans6318

New member
Me and a buddy recently purchased CRG shifter Karts, both with cr125 engines as we are looking at getting into the sport. I ran my kart the day we purchased it in a local parking lot until it ran out of fuel. Only ran for a few minutes until it died from no fuel. Ever since I added fuel, it is a bitch to start. When we do a push start and pop it into first and try and start, it seems to bog down and die. My buddy thought I was flooding the motor when I was trying to start because I would hit the accelerator to the floor once I popped the clutch but if I get into his kart and do the same thing, his will fire up and run. Only difference in his Kart is he has a duel fuel pump setup. sometimes we can get it to start and once running, it runs flawless. Then once we turn it off, again it is a bitch to start. On the stand, I can get it fired up on the first pull in third gear when cold. if I let it run for about a minute and then shut it off, I can't get it restarted. Seems I have to wait until the Kart gets cold. Kart has a pump around carb system. I added a gallon and half of C12. Used 2 oz of Motul oil per each 1/2 gallon. (filled 1/2 gallon at a time). When I pulled the plug the last time after it ran, the plug was wet. Any advice or recommendations? We both think it is something stupid causing it to be a pain to start. Want to work this out before we get them to the track as I don't want to be having a issue trying to start it.
 

ClarkSr

Member
Change the plug.
Every shifter has a certain way they like to start, hot or cold. You have to figure that out. Sometimes they're a real pita! Starter fluid WILL help.

It's hot now, what main jet do you have in it? Maybe too rich. I have no idea what the air density is where you are, but the main jet requirement will change during any given day. Sometimes/most times, it will change during a couple hours. Eg: cool morning practice, hot afternoon race, may require several jet size changes.

I think you're a little lean on the oil. Go up to at least 6 oz/gal. Not knowing what jet you have in it, if it's too lean, a little more oil MIGHT help to keep it from sticking.

Shifter karts are not a plug and play....you have to mess with them ALL the time!!
Have fun,
Clark Gaynor Sr.
 

cevans6318

New member
I changed the plug, made no difference. unsure of what internals the carb has. I live in south Florida so its generally hot all the time here. My main issue is I want to be able to start this with no issues when I am push starting it at the track. Last thing I want to have happen is going there and running into the same issue and not even being able to run it. The last time me and my buddy took it out, I had more issues starting it then actually driving it. Funny thing is my buddy saw the previous owner run this at the track before we bought it. He just never saw him push start it. We saw it start on the stand the day I bought it but can never get it to start without a fight.
 

Freezeman

Premium User
You may have damaged the ring when you ran it out of gas/oil. Pull the exhaust pipe and take a look into the cylinder to see the condition of the piston face, cylinder and ring. Do a compression check on the stand.
 

cevans6318

New member
You may have damaged the ring when you ran it out of gas/oil. Pull the exhaust pipe and take a look into the cylinder to see the condition of the piston face, cylinder and ring. Do a compression check on the stand.
we only tried to start it a few times before we realized it was out of gas. If the ring and or piston was damaged, why would it run flawless when we get it started? Me and my buddy were thinking maybe a compression issue but since it runs flawless when it starts, we kind of think that may not be the case.
 

ClarkSr

Member
So it's likely rich once warmed up. Pinch the fuel line going into the carb, hold it full throttle, and spin it on the stand with a rope/strap until it starts.

Like I said, every shifter is different. You need to figure out what it wants/doesn't want. See what main jet is in it. I suspect it has a 38mm Keihn carb on it. If so (if it's a Stock Honda that's what it will be) I'd take a wild guess that any jet over a 178 is likely too big.
Call the guy you bought it from. He knows more about it then any of us.

Try TS Racing. I'm not sure if they deal with shifters, but I'm sure they can put you in touch with somebody in your area who can help.

It will likely not start if you're not giving it any throttle at all. You have to figure it out. Just because you put a new plug in it, doesn't mean that one isn't fouled too. Change it again.

You mentioned pump around set up. The pumps will have to be rebuilt at least once or twice a season. Make sure to pulse line going to the center section, between the pumps, isn't full of oil/fuel. If so, drain it. You have to stay on top of that.

Like Freeze said above, pull the pipe and make sure the ring isn't pinched.

Have fun,
Clark.
 

cevans6318

New member
So it's likely rich once warmed up. Pinch the fuel line going into the carb, hold it full throttle, and spin it on the stand with a rope/strap until it starts.

Like I said, every shifter is different. You need to figure out what it wants/doesn't want. See what main jet is in it. I suspect it has a 38mm Keihn carb on it. If so (if it's a Stock Honda that's what it will be) I'd take a wild guess that any jet over a 178 is likely too big.
Call the guy you bought it from. He knows more about it then any of us.

Try TS Racing. I'm not sure if they deal with shifters, but I'm sure they can put you in touch with somebody in your area who can help.

It will likely not start if you're not giving it any throttle at all. You have to figure it out. Just because you put a new plug in it, doesn't mean that one isn't fouled too. Change it again.

You mentioned pump around set up. The pumps will have to be rebuilt at least once or twice a season. Make sure to pulse line going to the center section, between the pumps, isn't full of oil/fuel. If so, drain it. You have to stay on top of that.

Like Freeze said above, pull the pipe and make sure the ring isn't pinched.

Have fun,
Clark.
on the stand, when I get it started cold in third gear, it will run for 30 seconds before I let it die. (I can keep it running longer, just trying different things at this point) but if I try and start it right after in third gear, it won't start. Previous owner said to not give it any throttle to get it started. Which is true when starting it cold on the stand but giving it throttle seems logical after that but my buddy thinks we are flooding it. It could be this kart is just too temperamental but it seems more of a pita that anything. You said to check the pulse line going to the center section between pumps isn't full of oil/fuel. I only have 2 lines from the tank to the inlet of the pump. then 2 lines from outlet of pump to carb. Also if there was an issue with the piston ring, wouldn't I have an issue with it running? Kart runs flawless when its running.
 

Outrider

Member
Not sure what your resistance to pulling the pipe and checking the rings, piston and bore is, to the extent that it is possible through the exhaust port (and it is possible to tell a lot that way, but to answer your last question, no, you will not necessarily have an issue with it running if there is a piston ring problem, but some ring problems can cause difficulty with starting. You have neither a dyno or enough experience with the kart to tell to tell if it is actually running right through the seat of your pants, unfortunately, and running nicely on the stand only proves that it runs nicely on the stand when it is exhibiting other problems, unfortunately. Take what has been said in the above posts to heart; high performance 2 strokes are finicky, especially until you have learned what each one wants, and until you have checked everything against known standards for that make and model engine, you will be taking shots in the dark. It will not be easy (as you are already discovering), but if you persevere, you WILL figure it out, it's just going to take some more examination and experimentation. Good luck,and don't give up.

Disclaimer: back in my younger days, I had a lot of experience with hi-perf 2 strokes, and found them annoying on many occasions, which is why I go with 4 strokes now days, when I have a choice,
 

cevans6318

New member
Not sure what your resistance to pulling the pipe and checking the rings, piston and bore is, to the extent that it is possible through the exhaust port (and it is possible to tell a lot that way, but to answer your last question, no, you will not necessarily have an issue with it running if there is a piston ring problem, but some ring problems can cause difficulty with starting. You have neither a dyno or enough experience with the kart to tell to tell if it is actually running right through the seat of your pants, unfortunately, and running nicely on the stand only proves that it runs nicely on the stand when it is exhibiting other problems, unfortunately. Take what has been said in the above posts to heart; high performance 2 strokes are finicky, especially until you have learned what each one wants, and until you have checked everything against known standards for that make and model engine, you will be taking shots in the dark. It will not be easy (as you are already discovering), but if you persevere, you WILL figure it out, it's just going to take some more examination and experimentation. Good luck,and don't give up.

Disclaimer: back in my younger days, I had a lot of experience with hi-perf 2 strokes, and found them annoying on many occasions, which is why I go with 4 strokes now days, when I have a choice,
I appreciate the advice. Not resistant to pulling the pipe and checking, just trying to understand. When I say it runs flawless, we have ran them at a local parking lot. The kart runs flawless through the gears and pulls hard. Just finicky to start. That is why I am trying to understand if there was a piston or ring issue, wouldn't I see that while driving it? Yes I agree, I am no expert with these karts and no expert with high performance 2 strokes. Just figured with a loss of compression issue from a piston, ring or bore issue, it would show itself when driving the kart. I could be wrong though.
 

Colt sr

Member
When the engine is running look in the fuel tank and watch everything be mixed around by the vibration of the engine. So if there was sediment in the tank it can be sucked into the carb.
 

rainman

Premium User
A shifter kart usually starts easier than any other kart if everything is right. Sometimes even with the wrong jet. Check there is nothing wrong internally. Check the plug for spark, use a new plug, and just make sure you have gas in the line all the way into the carb and pump. Then start it on 3rd on the stand appliying a little throttle. I don't know what carb you are using but if it has a choke make sure it is on when cold and off when hot or once it starts. If push starting put it on 3rd, press the clutch and once you get some speeed release clutch and get into the throttle.
 
Top