Track Tac

Right front spindle? Will

alvin l nunley

alvin l nunley

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Something I’ve been wondering about for a long time, why don’t kart manufacturers, and maybe I’m wrong, maybe they already do, make right front spindles with camber and stagger already built-in? You could tell them, when you order a a spindle, what your normal set up is and they could build a spindle to match your set up. I can’t see it being a real expensive item.
 
I feel like this would make so much work for them that you would be better off just adjusting the camber and stagger on your chassis. Plus if that was the way it was if we wanted to adjust camber or stagger we would have to have another spindle with different camber and stagger.
 
most make a 7, 10 (standard on most) and 15 degree spindles. everything else you mentioned is adjustable so they don't need to.
 
XXX#40 said:
Pete_Muller said:
Pete_Muller said:
Why would this be better than having camber and up/down adjustment in the hanger on the chassis?
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Pete_Muller said:
Why would this be better than having camber and up/down adjustment in the hanger on the chassis?
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The most obvious; even though adjustments would still be needed, the severity of those adjustments would be reduced substantially. For instance; when you adjust camber, you wouldn’t have to add so much to the kingpin inclination. I’m guesing 65% cross, with 3.5* camber, puts you very close to max on adjustment. Not to mention; you’re adding 3.5* to the king pin inclination. Can that be good?
 
I think your wondering is valid Al.

When you turn the wheel you're doing three things that affect turning.
1. Weight jacking.

2. Controlling the contact patch for interrelated results of:
a. Angle
b. The amount of tire surface you're going to use.

3. Your rate of camber gain for timing per the amount of turning needed to get 1 and 2 accomplished.

As in the past was discussed extensively here I think what your asking for is called per past discussion "spindle angle build".

Because of how adjustments on plate front end, end up working with one adjustment affecting others I think your correct Al that to be really in the ballpark where you can truly rely on fine-tuning total "spindle angle build" needs to be a part of it.
Otherwise, you certainly can come close but right on with adjustments is going to be exactly that only close.

You also need to know why you need to do each per-on-track problem observed off the track and on the track.

On another note, originally plate front ends were invented to be able to hold adjustment in "tight" as would be needed in NASCAR.
What was found with them karting and I think the thought process then went to NASCAR is that front end adjustments need to be dynamic per changing on track forces which affect the operation of your chassis.
Plate front end parts were then moved out onto the end of a somewhat flexible lever again relating more to sprint karts.

One of the toughest things to >remember< to incorporate into your adjustment decisions is changing "on track forces" created per speed and grip.
They relate to how easy or hard you need to make it for your chassis work, per "available on track forces".
You also need to set your gearing per anticipated speed so you can best take advantage of on-track forces.
 
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One more thing. It would eliminate the need for growing, and/or shrinking tires by large amounts..
Of course you still might want to do that, but it would be a lot easier. I wonder, how urgent is the need to change front stagger?And I are you now I everybody early this morning to as the early factory will days
 
alvin l nunley said:
The most obvious; even though adjustments would still be needed, the severity of those adjustments would be reduced substantially. For instance; when you adjust camber, you wouldn’t have to add so much to the kingpin inclination. I’m guesing 65% cross, with 3.5* camber, puts you very close to max on adjustment. Not to mention; you’re adding 3.5* to the king pin inclination. Can that be good?
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Chassis are already built with spindle and block combinations in mind to be at a certain range of camber or cross.

Camber you're looking at a 2, maybe 2.5* swing AT MOST from one end to the other. Why buy a $60 spindle to compensate for a 2.5* swing when you can make that same adjustment with a $6 heim joint?

Chassis can operate from 48-72% Cross given the adjustments already built into the kart, and anywhere from 1 to 5 degrees of camber change.

Stagger wise, we're not growing or shrinking tires buy huge amounts. Your stagger change range is going to be 1/2" at the most, why would I buy $60 spindles to compensate for a cross change via stagger, when I can just add or remove 1 washer?
 
Because if you had RF tire presentation perfect and adjusted anything with your plate front end to change cross, your perfection would be gone and you'd be back to good enough front end adjustments..
 
If, like you say, everything is perfect, why would you want to change? Or maybe I just didn't understand?

I have a feeling that the front end and backend are often viewed as separate entities. They're not!! They are connected, and anything you do to one end, will absolutely have an effect on the other end.
 
Change Cross and you alter two things.
1. It sets where you will get weight from for use by the right side tires and where it will return to.
2. It sets how much movement will take place when the chassis operates.

That's all it does.

Everything else talked about regarding cross is about stuff those two things affect.
And what else you can do to alter chassis movement or grip.
If your mind can't separate out between the workings of the chassis and the working of grip, the only result possible is confusion.
 
Your failure of understanding is your demanding numbers and adjustments be the end goal, when the end goal is about how the machine your adjusting needs to be used and is used.

Or not? ... :)
 
Al- I don't think spindles are doing anything for stagger or tire size, they are built on certain angles to affect cross (high cross for dirt and low cross for asphalt or champ) Stagger is tire circumference and nothing more.
 
Rake is about where the stub axle is located up or down on the kingpin.
Al is bringing up discussion on its mounted angle to the kingpin.

I think ??????????
 
paulkish said:
Rake is about where the stub axle is located up or down on the kingpin.
Al is bringing up discussion on its mounted angle to the kingpin.

I think ??????????
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If he is trying to change the dynamic of the rf spindle it WILL change the rake of the go kart......
Put a high cross spindle on a kart that a manufacturer makes, put 70% cross with 1 1/2 stagger in the kart and then put a “standard” spindle on the kart with the same 70% cross with 1 1/2 front stagger and let me know how that works out for you. There is a reason why manufacturers make a “high cross spindle”
 
JRC_Performance said:
If he is trying to change the dynamic of the rf spindle it WILL change the rake of the go kart......
Put a high cross spindle on a kart that a manufacturer makes, put 70% cross with 1 1/2 stagger in the kart and then put a “standard” spindle on the kart with the same 70% cross with 1 1/2 front stagger and let me know how that works out for you. There is a reason why manufacturers make a “high cross spindle”
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I find this interesting .
The high cross spindle has the axle lower on the barrel .
Now we use the same 1.5 stagger .
Therefore we need too raise the spindle via washers in order too get back to the 70% cross .
Which in turn lowers the right corner reducing rake .
The other train of thought is .
When putting the standard spindle , at 70% cross the right front corner is so high it resists transfer .
 
I'm having a problem seeing any differences in frame heights, regardless of the spindle.

The frame height required for either spindle is the same. The tire contact patch could care less the circuitous route to get the weight, only that the weight was there.

The high cross spindle simply makes so there is adjustability left, after achieving desired cross percentages.

Now, if we change the spring rate of the chassis, then we have a variable the contact patch also sees.
 
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