paulkish
old fart
He did bring up, front stagger and that does affect rake.
Right front spindle? Will
- Thread starter alvin l nunley
- Start date
paulkish
old fart
An especially dynamic weight that transfers instantaneously no matter its path.
I'm forgetting washers are also involved. dumb dumb dumb
So it's three things which can alter Rake, washers, where the stub axle is mounted and stagger. and some ?????????? on that one from this dummy.
But don't all three by themselves also change caster and camber?? nevermind my head is starting to hurt
JRC_Performance
Member
A lot more plays out then just stagger and cross.... think of where the barrel of the spindle will be located on the spindle in relation to the kpi of the spindle itself..... there is a difference of weight transfer onto the rf when wheel Input is implemented. Set a kart up like I said same cross and same front stagger. Set the rf camber at -2.5. Mark a spot in the steering wheel in co junction to a spot in the fairing turn the wheel “20*” see what the weight is at the rf to the Lr. Now change rf spindles and set it all back to the basic set up with the previous spindle. Check the load on the rf and Lr....
hope that wasn’t too confusing.... turn plates on scales and being able to play with all that is an eye opener....
hope that wasn’t too confusing.... turn plates on scales and being able to play with all that is an eye opener....
I think the phenomenon you are seeing is more a product of manufacturing tolerances, than actual geometry.
I am going to suggest you will see the same things using 2 supposedly identical spindles and performing your test.
The result you are showing is due of a slight change in scrub radius.
All things actually being equal, nothing changes.
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"J'-remy
Member
I don't think the high cross spindle is lower on the barrel. The axle is longer and has a spacer to move the wheel out pulling weight off the left front and loading the right front= higher cross. with the spacer on the outside of the the hub the spindle is normal cross.
Kj26
Member
On PMI (Slack) High Cross spindles the axle is lower on the spindle. The axle is not longer and there's no other spacers needed.
"J'-remy
Member
the high cross only applies to the left spindle if it was lower on the barrel it would be a low cross spindle as it would be loading the left front and taking weight off the right front lowering your cross. my high cross left spindle has a spacer as my right steeped spindle does not. what does that spacer do if not give you more cross if placed on the inside of the hub vs outside?
Dougherty#39
Member
High cross RF lower on the barrel, then yes high cross LF is higher on the barrel. They make them for both sides.
XXX#40
2A supporter
wrong on a high cross spindle, the axle stub is welded lower on the spindle tube for the RF.
Moving the LR out isnt adjusting cross, it increases and decrease the effects of stagger, and moves the heaviest tire closer or farther away from CG causing it to transfer/receive weight quicker or slower
XXX#40
2A supporter
Yes we do, even custom ones before or aft of the centerline
"J'-remy
Member
how does it effect stagger on the front when they can spin independently of each other? stagger on the rear is for the solid axle. if you could run a bearing hub you would not need rear stagger. front stagger is for weight jacking not stagger you need to run staggered wheels in the front due to cross and the fact the frame is lower on the right higher on the left to compensate the different sized wheels we run ? will moving my hub in or out effect cross? i just looked at the slack website any yes i am wrong on the spindles. do you work for Slack? it's funny my axiom runs the high cross left spindle as stock but is not a high cross kart compared to the Charger or Utramax.
XXX#40
2A supporter
No I worked for Infiniti chassis for 9 years, sponsored by them for 11 years, built and ran clay city speedway in 99 ran it until 2005, won several track championships at Dumplin and Ashway
Never said it did effect stagger on the front, just that high cross spindles come for both sides
You mean a one way bearing hub? we will still need stagger, we run stagger on our full size latemodel as well
Not lower on the right, chassis rake LF is the lowest point.
Slack putting a HC spindle on the LF just isnt for obtaining higher cross
alvin l nunley
Site Supporter
my point being, put that 1.5" stagger (whatever) in the spindle and keep the tires closer to the same size!! You only have to lower the spindle down .240". Having spindles welded with camber built-in would save time too!
flattop1
Dawg 89
I have ahigh cross triton spindle for the right side the axle length is the same the axle is lower on the barrel .
Left side high cross is just the opposite .
The spacer affects scrub radius .
If you move a wheel out away from the chassis it will have less static weight .
XXX#40
2A supporter
I can change camber now quicker than changing a spindle, so no time savings
Dougherty#39
Member
How is it easier to change a whole spindle out? All I have to do is loosen one side and tighten the other to achieve more or less (negative RF, positive LF) camber?
Kj26
Member
Thanks that’s what I meant to say, not that they were both lower.
alvin l nunley
Site Supporter
I’m not saying you have to change spindles. I must be extremely bad explain things.
Example; let’s say you have a 2.75° spindle. You want 3.0° camber. All you have to do is make a .25° adjustment. I would think that would be a lot easier than making a 3.0° adjustment? Has karts are built today, that means you’re also putting another 3° into the kingpin inclination. This means you’re actually changing 2 things.
Example; let’s say you have a 2.75° spindle. You want 3.0° camber. All you have to do is make a .25° adjustment. I would think that would be a lot easier than making a 3.0° adjustment? Has karts are built today, that means you’re also putting another 3° into the kingpin inclination. This means you’re actually changing 2 things.
It's just another way to see things.
If you look at spindle build angle instead of kingpin inclination in relation to the ground, it is easy to stay consistent with adjustments.
A spindle with 12 degree build angle and 2.5 or 3 degree camber is easily achieved without unnecessarily complex thought process. Add in caster, and in plan view, neither produces a true 15 degree kingpin inclination.
Parts are easily duplicated without difficulties you will assign to making individual pieces.
Just making things complicated, without understanding why you are making it complicated.
If you look at spindle build angle instead of kingpin inclination in relation to the ground, it is easy to stay consistent with adjustments.
A spindle with 12 degree build angle and 2.5 or 3 degree camber is easily achieved without unnecessarily complex thought process. Add in caster, and in plan view, neither produces a true 15 degree kingpin inclination.
Parts are easily duplicated without difficulties you will assign to making individual pieces.
Just making things complicated, without understanding why you are making it complicated.