Right tire lifting when turning.

"J'-remy

Member
if the kart was out of alignment toe in or out, or if the steering wheel was not centered perfectly you would get a false reading due to caster and camber.
 

"J'-remy

Member
Not ruling out a bent frame at all but it would be nearly impossible to identify a bent frame on a LTO kart without having either a strait frame to compare to or the jig the kart was built from. But if people laid their karts on garage floors (witch are not strait flat or level) you would have a lot of people thinking their perfectly good frame was bent. i'm trying to prevent that
 

bomber315

Member
Al, if the spindles are the same height the frame might be straight. Might be. If they are different heights the frame is NOT necessary bent.

They could (most likely) be different heights from the factory. Or the frame could have actually bent to make them the same height.

Checking spindle height will do nothing if you don't know what is supposed to be from the factory.
 

IndyHarry

Member
An angle finder will indicate if the spindle bracket is still in alignment. Not sure what the factory settings are supposed to be but easy to check.
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
Its called Root cause .
Several things could be wrong . the first wrong thing may not be the entire problem .
You would not even need to pull the spindles just pull all the tires see if it tetter totters on the floor .
Honestly if one spindle is 3" higher then the other something is bent . now your not going to be able to get into the tenths of an inch .
honestly if you can see it on track something is seriously wrong .
 

Chipg56

Member
The more I think about this the more I think your are worried about something that is not a problem at all. Get this kart on a set of scales and see if you can get reasonable numbers. Someone on here knows what kind of numbers this old kart requires. I would guess, subject to criticism, front around 45 left around 55 and a low cross set up of about 53. Post what class and what weight you run as well as information on the track. Strongly advise you buy Mike Mckartys book Understanding Chassis Theory and Dynamics. Read it numerous times. https://4cycle.com/karting/threads/understanding-chassis-theory-and-dynamics-manual.110857/ ... Don't touch any torches.
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
Sitting here thinking about , (the spindles are not the same height ) .
While that may be true .
Isn't the right one always the lower of the two .
If it was higher then the left that would be an anomoly .
Now seeing as he said its been in the wall while he was driving . The spindle is the obvious culprit . With a 97 model its likely happened more then once .
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
Kart nor turning . Thats never good . . With out some form of numbers its a crap shoot . Set it on the floor hold a squre against the tire .
If its a inch out its probably too much .
Me i would just bend it back were i thought it should be .
Of course Jamies advice was spot on .
NA .------Need another .
 

Chipg56

Member
I don't think a simple bend, unless it is related to caster or to a lesser degree camber, would cause what I believe he is describing. Isn't he saying the RF raises WHEN he turns the wheel left? Correct me if I am wrong but that is what all karts do to assist weight transfer off the left rear and left front to the RF and RR. I seem to recall that this was exaggerated on old karts with stiff frames.
 
Sitting here thinking about , (the spindles are not the same height ) .
While that may be true .
Isn't the right one always the lower of the two .
If it was higher then the left that would be an anomoly .
Now seeing as he said its been in the wall while he was driving . The spindle is the obvious culprit . With a 97 model its likely happened more then once .
Not necessarily.
Some oval chassis (ours included) are made with the RF weldment bracket higher than the LF -- the reason is that it is built for a 34" RF tire, while the LF is only 32 1/2" circumference. That difference in ride height affects the needed spindle height.
To further complicate matters, some chassis manufacturers use what's known as "drop" or "high cross" spindles where the spindle shaft is welded lower on the yoke.
With today's higher cross chassis, you'll find the weldment brackets are close to the same height, but not necessarily -- check with your manufacturer BEFORE measuring on a garage floor with torch in hand! :)

OP,
Chip and I think a lot alike...This is an older kart which probably uses 15* spindles. We didn't even run 8.00 right side tires on the RF back in those days -- a 6.00 was the norm. With a ton of caster, it's bound to lift the outside edge of the RF when you turn hard left.

Another easy thing to check is the kingpin.
While the front end is up in the air, rotate the kingpin 180* (half turn) and see if this affects your RF camber.
You can also take a straight edge and cheap inclinometer (available at most home improvement stores - or fine race shops) and check the camber on the RF just off the outside of the wheel. That will at least give you some idea of what you've got to work with.

Taking the kart to be scaled would be a great idea.
Those karts were typical 55/55/55 = 55% LS, Cross, & Rear.



I suspect there's other issues with the chassis and handling, but without looking it over in person, or having some scale numbers to go by, we'd all be guessing.
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
Question . So In 1997 , were the front tires staggered out like they are today ?
I have a T2 that things gotta be 33-34 inchs around
 

"J'-remy

Member
my recollection was my 95 Shadow had un equal tires on the front end but it was a used kart. 96-98 was right around the time people started putting bigger and bigger tires up front i got out of racing befoe the jump to the 10" on the right front my banshee 96 0r 97 was definatly ready for the bigger tires the nerf bars were wider to accommodate for the bigger tires. plus i remember when we used to have rubber swirls on the side of our bodies and then it switched to where the wheel marked up the body and not the tire because we were stretching the tires to wider rims
 

callen

Member
Do you have the front tires spaced all the way in on the spindles? Ultra Max reccomended that we started our '99 center force 1-1/4 stagger in the front and 5/8 in the rear
 
Question . So In 1997 , were the front tires staggered out like they are today ?
I have a T2 that things gotta be 33-34 inchs around
By '97, Yea, I'd say that we were all on, or at least headed to running the big RFs at that point.
Our offset kart was introduced in '93 and we used a 6.00 (narrow) RF still. Then we progressed to the Burris 7.10, then later the 8.10/10" wheel combo that's used today.
We always ran 1" in the front, and rear stagger depended on track size and how the kart handled back in the early '90s.
Going back BEFORE offset karts, we ran 4.50 X 5 T2 on the RF, and stuck the kart frame in the trailer tongue and "gently tweaked" the RF to gain some camber. Cutting tires meant going to the local school parking lot and making a few hundred laps to wear in the tires. :)
 
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