Roll speed
- Thread starter boomer216
- Start date
Phantomforever
Member
Tougher tires
racing promotor
Moderator
If I were always at the track with you or anyone else for that matter and all we needed was .1 th consistently what I'd be looking at most was where can my driver pick up .2 th and we'd work with that first. Take that out of the equation If we proved the driver is as perfect as it's going to get, next would be Tires and air pressures, and as little rear stagger as possible but still have good crisp rotation .
Well I have had 4 different drivers, all on the same kart, we have tried 1in to 1.5in rear stagger, we get through the corner just as good or better than most anyone at the track, my tires I have put on 4 different karts and every single one of those karts have won or had a shot to win. It's just this one kart, it's a new one my friend designed I am.trying to help get off the ground and test on and figure out. Just seems everywhere we go with it we are always lacking that extra .1 we need.
SoCo Tire Treatments
Moderator
If the same tires are winning on 4 different karts, and this other one is always a tenth off.......its the kart.
I understand it's the kart, it's new and know very little about it and trying to find that .1 in the kart. Just trying to find ideas and things to try to get more before we go back to redesigning and changing the chassis itself.
That was one of my thoughts also, we are in the works of getting a stiffer version. It's just taking a bit because the guy that owns it just had their first kid. But everyone that has Rode it says it had tons of grip and basically turns itself on the track.
CarlsonMotorsports
Site Supporter
Could be too narrow or soft in the waist. Too soft/flexible of tubing. So many variables.
We built a flexible car with a real soft right rear (Vector DO) in 1993-94, and it was bad fast with very high HP or very low HP. Stock classes it lacks roll speed. Nothing you do with tires or increasing left side % will overcome that. But for ice racing, grass racing, low/no bite racing with big HP, it's a blast to drive! We still offer that chassis for specific applications like these.
-----
Thanks and God bless,Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
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34 years of service to the karting industry ~ 1Cor 9:24
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racing promotor
Moderator
And add left % age
Colt sr
Member
Have you tried a different set of tires? Just because they work well on one chassis doesn't mean they will work as good on another. We had a 04 nemesis and an 08 tempest. The nemesis was bad fast on a particular set of tires and when put on the tempest kart was 2 tenths off the pace of the nemesis. Mind you same engine, clutch, rear gear, tires and had the same nut behind the wheel. What brand of tires are you using if I may ask?
JRC_Performance
Member
R&D R&D……. Stay after the races and do one adjustment at a time. If it didn’t work go back to what that adjustment was and try something different. Like mentioned above left side %, rf camber, rear stagger, nose weight, maybe even castor….. sometimes on a “softer” chassis you do need a more of a “tougher” tire……
R&D costs a lot in time and money but in the end when you get it right consistently the reward is greater!
Good Luck!
R&D costs a lot in time and money but in the end when you get it right consistently the reward is greater!
Good Luck!
Where do you race at you in midwest or racing red clay tracks.try not to use so much harsh prep.use a mild prep and wipe em mild.that was info shared to me by someone who knows what they are doing.lol..
Haven't played with much caster yet but I am going to change it for our next race. Things we have tried are, 3rf camber to 2.5, 47.5 nose all the way to 45, which it ran much better the less nose we took off of it, we have moved the rf caster block to the forward position because it was rolling on the rf way to hard and causing the tire to roll over and kart to bounce in the front. 58.5 left to 61 left, 67 cross to 72 cross. We run in the southeast Carolinas and such. The chassis designer and myself are very good friends we talk about changing things on the kart all the time. It's not radically different than mainstream stuff, but one of my drivers has Rode a premier v1 and v2 and a scythe 083 and now ours and says ours produces the most grip of them all. I plan to play with spindle degrees at some point as well. Like I said, the owner/my buddy just had his first child so he has had to take a step back from going to the track with us for a few weeks but will be back soon. Before that he was always at the track with us as we tested and tried different things. I am not a slouch on tires by no means, I know what I am doing there, that's why I was brought on to help him with this venture and how it started. Gone from brand new tires, to few months old, to rerolls, to no rolls, to straight regular prep to aggressive prep. THANK YOU ALL for every bit of input and help and knowledge you have chose to give me it is very much appreciated.
SoCo Tire Treatments
Moderator
Sounds like you tried quite a few different changes, and it sounds like it makes too much bite still. Theres some loss of roll speed you are looking for and you may only find it by taking bite out of the frame itself.
paulkish
old fart
Too much bite !
You can't have too much bite, you can only have not enough ability to roll free as you asked about.
Accelerating you will only use the amount of bite needed to accelerate per the hp you have available.
You don't have half flat gumbo tires grabbing hard at the track slowing you down anywhere because you said same tires work on other karts.
So keeping with your thinking and the thinking of others your chassis maybe as others have said too soft.
IMHO, your thinking on what to do with the kart to make it fast is not much different then the other .1 or .2 tenths you use and setup.
You got to change and add to your thinking and incorporate into it what the softer chassis is doing to how the tires are presented to the track.
The ONLY place the extra grip on the track being reported to you is coming from is not the tires because there ok, IT'S BECAUSE THE SOFTER CHASSIS YOUR NORMAL THINKING ABOUT SETUP IS CAUSING TIRES TO >>>FIGHT<<< EACH OTHER FOR CONTROL OF DIRECTION.
When with a stiffer chassis each tire will roll more in the directions on the track you need to go.
The Fix ???????????????????
... just a dumb idea with my first coffee this morning and it goes against what others have offered.
Back off a tad/little/minute quantity/very very little on EVERY adjustment on the kart except front stagger and even back off a bit on the amount of rear stagger and move the LR out a 1/4".
... yep dumb but is it per what is suspected about the chassis being a bit soft ??????????? ... maybe?
I'm thinking about what dumb thing may put adjustments changed because of a softer chassis back more towards what's needed to be similar when out on the track.
... I'll go crawl back under my rock now. ...
You can't have too much bite, you can only have not enough ability to roll free as you asked about.
Accelerating you will only use the amount of bite needed to accelerate per the hp you have available.
You don't have half flat gumbo tires grabbing hard at the track slowing you down anywhere because you said same tires work on other karts.
So keeping with your thinking and the thinking of others your chassis maybe as others have said too soft.
IMHO, your thinking on what to do with the kart to make it fast is not much different then the other .1 or .2 tenths you use and setup.
You got to change and add to your thinking and incorporate into it what the softer chassis is doing to how the tires are presented to the track.
The ONLY place the extra grip on the track being reported to you is coming from is not the tires because there ok, IT'S BECAUSE THE SOFTER CHASSIS YOUR NORMAL THINKING ABOUT SETUP IS CAUSING TIRES TO >>>FIGHT<<< EACH OTHER FOR CONTROL OF DIRECTION.
When with a stiffer chassis each tire will roll more in the directions on the track you need to go.
The Fix ???????????????????
... just a dumb idea with my first coffee this morning and it goes against what others have offered.
Back off a tad/little/minute quantity/very very little on EVERY adjustment on the kart except front stagger and even back off a bit on the amount of rear stagger and move the LR out a 1/4".
... yep dumb but is it per what is suspected about the chassis being a bit soft ??????????? ... maybe?
I'm thinking about what dumb thing may put adjustments changed because of a softer chassis back more towards what's needed to be similar when out on the track.
... I'll go crawl back under my rock now. ...