Rolling internal same day of race?

1fasttiller

Member
Hi ladies and gents, recently we've been hearing of a trend to roll tires internally the day of a race (mostly seeing this at BIG events). I was always told that prep must roll a MIN of 12 hours and cure for at least 48 hours, but apparently that isn't true? (I'm sure it depends on the type of prep)

Anyone care to share some advice regarding what preps you can roll same day and what track conditions warrant that fresh of a roll? I'm not looking for all your secrets, just some advice to possibly help our program some with my son.

Note: We race only in Florida and GA, on mostly hard, sandy tracks.
 
Back when PRC had prep we rolled internal a day or two before .
May not have got the full benifit or it may have been a much strongr product .
Obviusly if your handed tires day of the race there is no choice but to do it .
 
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It's always been my understanding that the purpose of internal rolling prep was for the prep to try to soften/break down the composition of the cords so that you wouldn't need to bomb the outside of the tire...if it can be done day of race to your satisfaction, more power to you.... personally, I've never had any success with internal rolling unless it goes at least 24 hours with a couple days cure time...
 
I don’t know a lot about internal tire prep but I think that I would feel way more comfortable with a tire that was rolled 2-5 days ago than one that was rolled the same day. I think that 2-5 days before the race is the best decision. IMO it just makes a lot more since to let the prep cure and work it’s way into the tire vs rush it and not have the rubber all the way cured with prep the day of.
 
They roll all night , you got a six or eight hr drive .
Set up pack the track drivers meeting lunch hot laps , qualify .
Your at 24 hrs easy
 
This happens more often than what people think. Internally prepping tires at track can be for a dry slick type track which you dont prep externally and/or needing a "fresh" set of tires. Also its a must when you receive tires the day of the race, Nationals, Maxx Daddys, Thanksgiving Thunder for example.
Internal prep is for sidewall manipulation, not for breaking down of chords. Tires are our springs and we are changing the spring rate of the tire with internal.
 
Internal prep is for sidewall manipulation, not for breaking down of chords. Tires are our springs and we are changing the spring rate of the tire with internal.
Understood.

To try to make it easier or a No Goats help type of thing and karts though adjusted differently are/might be generally the same:
Using "soft" "medium" and "stiff" where would you generally put the spring rate for each corner/tire for a baseline just ballpark:

RF=
LF=
RR=
LR=

This might give us a general consensus?

Then maybe do the same for an idea of the change for different types of tracks?
Dry Slick
Wet Slick
Low Grip
Medium Grip
High Grip
Big Fast Sweeping Track
Normal 1/5 Mile Track
Banked 1/5 Mile Track
Flat 1/5 Mile Track
Flat Bull Ring 1/8 or less
Medium Banked Bull Ring 1/8 or less
High Banked Bull Ring 1/8 or less
Indoor High Grip Short Track
Indoor High Grip Medium Track
Indoor High Grip Big Track


When I started the reply I never thought the list would get that long and it's proly not all ?

Racers have their "go to" sheets on paper or in their heads about a lot of stuff.
Why not on where you might baseline individual spring rates?

Why not learn to know what tire to put on a corner by Track Type and Grip Needed along with Spring Rate at each corner?
I think once it's looked into patterns would show themselves and it would not be so complicated.
Isn't that what a tire persons skill is to be able to see what patterns of track conditions and individual corner tire needs are and know how to put them together?

... just wondering about it ?????????????

Fun Thread to thunk abou
 
I would think that the purpose of rolling less than 24 hours of race day is due to assigned & impounded tires.
You will not get the full benefit of the internal prep (regardless of what product is used) with such short cure time. Will you get "some" effect? Sure, and that's what is being hoped for as a gain. Any gain over your competition is still a gain.
You'd be surprised how quickly some preps can drive into a tire with the use of a hot box.

As far as spring rates, Paul, that's a long haired discussion for another morning.
Short answer: I focus on right sides primarily, and try to match them for spring rate. If one is slightly higher than the other, I will place the lower one on the RF. Generally though, they'll be very close when you're on the same tire (brand, compound, durometer, and internal.) I designate them as "RS" = Right Side tires that can be placed either RF or RR.
For big momentum tracks, I might try to use a stiffer LR for better roll speed, simply because it's carrying the bulk of the weight statically on scales and on the straights.



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Well how does air pressure integrate with that? For example if inside prep is just for softening the spring rate, doesn't air already do that enough? And couldn't I just run more air if I had too much inside prep?

I've been thinking about this..of course more air leads to less roll resistance, well then why wouldn't we roll like a total of 6 ounces into a tire over the period of two weeks and run 2psi more than what people usually run?
 
I can tell you it was in fact happening at the World 100 a few weeks ago and by some very big teams... which is what got me questioning it. Jasper was very difficult to get into this year and left many big names not even qualifying or barely making the show. We saw hot boxes and rollers turning at 0800 Saturday. More than a few very successful guys told us they were rolling inside all day to prepare for the race that night.
 
I can tell you it was in fact happening at the World 100 a few weeks ago and by some very big teams... which is what got me questioning it. Jasper was very difficult to get into this year and left many big names not even qualifying or barely making the show. We saw hot boxes and rollers turning at 0800 Saturday. More than a few very successful guys told us they were rolling inside all day to prepare for the race that night.

That is very possible that they were rolling internally but it was probably not brand new tires. Jasper was really good this year, the top 2 were on thin tires to start the race. If you were having trouble getting into the track it may of been because you were over wiped or too soft. To answer the question about rolling at the track its very common especially on a longer race like that to add some to the tire the day of. The idea is that your tire will wear off the external prep rather quickly and lose bite. The more cautions that you have as well as the half way break with make it harder for tires to refire. If you time it correctly your internal that you rolled that day will begin to pull through as the race goes on.
 
That is very possible that they were rolling internally but it was probably not brand new tires. Jasper was really good this year, the top 2 were on thin tires to start the race. If you were having trouble getting into the track it may of been because you were over wiped or too soft. To answer the question about rolling at the track its very common especially on a longer race like that to add some to the tire the day of. The idea is that your tire will wear off the external prep rather quickly and lose bite. The more cautions that you have as well as the half way break with make it harder for tires to refire. If you time it correctly your internal that you rolled that day will begin to pull through as the race goes on.
Good info, thanks Chris. Were you there? Any idea whos chemicals Bauter/Gaylord were using?
 
I can tell you it was in fact happening at the World 100 a few weeks ago and by some very big teams... which is what got me questioning it. Jasper was very difficult to get into this year and left many big names not even qualifying or barely making the show. We saw hot boxes and rollers turning at 0800 Saturday. More than a few very successful guys told us they were rolling inside all day to prepare for the race that night.
Not uncommon at all for Jasper. When me and Darren Brown won the Friday Night Shootout, and that was back in 2011 i believe, the tires were on the hot box lots of the time.
If guys were rolling fresh tires, its because they threw goat into them too much Friday night and they needed fresh stuff.
And Tony has his own chemicals, Liquid Platinum.....but im betting he was using some type of goat as well.
 
Good info, thanks Chris. Were you there? Any idea whos chemicals Bauter/Gaylord were using?
No I wasnt, I just dealt with some guys that were there. I know in qualifying you could run a older tire and wipe it once or twice with Black Sand/Acrysol and it was good. As far as what Tony was wiping you will have to ask him, I do know that he was on older tires in that race and you did not need any goat. Tony hasnt pushed any Liquid Platinum prep in years.
 
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