I was speaking to a friend Sunday and he was stating he was told by one of the better known tire guys in this business to roll all his tires with the same inside and use age to separate them. 1mth, 2mth ect. I was wondering what were the thoughts on this and how he could accomplish this and be successful? I was under the understanding that the diff inside amounts & age changed spring rate of the sidewall so a 75 was diff than a 120 and so on. How can he make this work with the same amounts in everything? How could I use air pressure to get the same effect in a 90 that a 75 would give me? Go up 1/4lb air? Just thought I'd ask. I was surprised to hear the name attached to this philosophy.
Rolling same inside using age to pick tire advice
- Thread starter Cakalac
- Start date
CarlsonMotorsports
Site Supporter
A lot would depend on what chemical was rolled.
No doubt that cure time makes a difference in tires.
Also not underestimating the importance of having several sets rolled at different times.
If these tires were prepared and to be used at the same race track, then that might explain at least part of this theory.
This would also be a good way to learn how and when to use certain sets of tires for a beginner. (Ie, if you've only got 3 sets to choose from and they're all rolled with the same amounts, then you'll see the effects of cure time, etc.)
The bigger problem is: How many different sets of tires can you afford? Introducing different amounts of internal, coupled with different cure times, just doubled, tripled, quadrupled your tire bill. I am full convinced that you can never have enough tires in your arsenal. You still have to bolt the right 4 on the kart at the right time.
Personally, I prefer to roll different amounts of internal.
We even use two different internals to accomplish two different things (breaking down sidewalls versus not.)
I would not adjust air to "mimic" the effect of different amounts of internal roll.
Sure, that will help some (ie go up on air if you're too locked into the race track), but it's a band-aid fix in my opinion.
But you know what, we've all used a lot of band-aids over the years.
-----
Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
30 years of service to the karting industry
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
No doubt that cure time makes a difference in tires.
Also not underestimating the importance of having several sets rolled at different times.
If these tires were prepared and to be used at the same race track, then that might explain at least part of this theory.
This would also be a good way to learn how and when to use certain sets of tires for a beginner. (Ie, if you've only got 3 sets to choose from and they're all rolled with the same amounts, then you'll see the effects of cure time, etc.)
The bigger problem is: How many different sets of tires can you afford? Introducing different amounts of internal, coupled with different cure times, just doubled, tripled, quadrupled your tire bill. I am full convinced that you can never have enough tires in your arsenal. You still have to bolt the right 4 on the kart at the right time.
Personally, I prefer to roll different amounts of internal.
We even use two different internals to accomplish two different things (breaking down sidewalls versus not.)
I would not adjust air to "mimic" the effect of different amounts of internal roll.
Sure, that will help some (ie go up on air if you're too locked into the race track), but it's a band-aid fix in my opinion.
But you know what, we've all used a lot of band-aids over the years.
-----
Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
30 years of service to the karting industry
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
What you describe is pretty much the name of the game in tires now days. You also have those who have a trailer full of tires who have different ages AND different internal amounts (fresh roll, 2 wk, 4 wk, 6 wk, 8wk in 60, 90 and 120oz) then you have re rolls in addition to that. The amount rolled often varies on time of the year, spring and fall you have more inside, in summer you are rolling less.
CH3Racing
Site Supporter
That is my Philosophy on tires. I roll everything the same amount, that amount will depend on the time of year and temperature. 90% of the time racing Maxxis in our area we will need a tire that duro's between 48 and 52 in the summer and 44-48 this time of the year. I can roll 120s this time of the year and the tire will check mid 40s, after I run them 1 time and and they sit for a few weeks they will harden up a couple points. I try to base my whole program around running fresh to 6 week old tires, and rerolls if I need them. I do 2 sets of tires at a time. I can choose to have 2 different amounts of inside so the tires are harder and softer or I can choose to have a sister set. I can pick a harder tire by going older but I can not have a sister set by going older. So I choose to have 2 sets of identical tires vs different inside amounts. If I could do 4 sets of tires at once I might would do 2 different amounts but my budget doesnt allow for that. I may be wrong but I feel the internal amount thats in the tire is way less important than the age, how many times its been run and the amount of rubber thats on the tire. Everyone has different methods and different things work better for different people. I have found this works best for me and my budget, plus the more simple you keep it the better off you are in the long run.
Last edited:
CarlsonMotorsports
Site Supporter
and isn't that the truth, right there!
racing promotor
Moderator
I'm thinking he means both same amount in rights and lefts, and same amount in all different sets.
There are plenty of applications where you can roll internal in 11's as well
Yeah I was asking about rolling same amount in all my sets instead of having 75,90,120 and so on. Just roll 90 in all my tires and separate them based on age 1mth,2mth, or in weeks even.
That seems to be a simple way. I'm 140lbs and I know your driver is a little smaller than me. What would be that number you think for me? 100cc this time of year and maybe 80 in summer and base the tire off age? I know there are tons of ways to do this stuff and be competetive and simpler is better for me. It also helps my budget as well.
A lot would depend on what chemical was rolled.
No doubt that cure time makes a difference in tires.
Also not underestimating the importance of having several sets rolled at different times.
If these tires were prepared and to be used at the same race track, then that might explain at least part of this theory.
This would also be a good way to learn how and when to use certain sets of tires for a beginner. (Ie, if you've only got 3 sets to choose from and they're all rolled with the same amounts, then you'll see the effects of cure time, etc.)
The bigger problem is: How many different sets of tires can you afford? Introducing different amounts of internal, coupled with different cure times, just doubled, tripled, quadrupled your tire bill. I am full convinced that you can never have enough tires in your arsenal. You still have to bolt the right 4 on the kart at the right time.
Personally, I prefer to roll different amounts of internal.
We even use two different internals to accomplish two different things (breaking down sidewalls versus not.)
I would not adjust air to "mimic" the effect of different amounts of internal roll.
Sure, that will help some (ie go up on air if you're too locked into the race track), but it's a band-aid fix in my opinion.
But you know what, we've all used a lot of band-aids over the years.
-----
Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
30 years of service to the karting industry
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
Thanks for the info Brian. Rolling the diff amounts is what I've been doing the last year. I'd have 75-120 and there are times where I roll 75 and don't use them for 2 mths. The tracks I run on seem to always be low to medium bite. I don't run the higher bite stuff simply because that seems to draw the more elite programs. I like to run with them but I don't care to get THAT humbled every time I hit the track. Only to test my programs growth a few times a year. LOL!
Kj26
Member
There are plenty of applications where you can roll internal in 11's as well
I wouldn’t doubt that, but where we were running I don’t think anyone was and if they were, they still weren’t keeping up with us back then lol.
CH3Racing
Site Supporter
Where all do you plan on running this year? If you are running low to medium bite tracks I would say more like 120's now and 100's in the summer.
NC & SC tracks. Liberty, Woodleaf, Hanging Rock, GKK, Warrior Creek, Sugartit, Patriot to name most. A few of those can be high bite obviously.
SoCo Tire Treatments
Moderator
I know what is needed in the tire as far as internal most of the time, so for 1 driver ill do same internal sets and base off of age.
We all know that from the tracks mentioned above that Carnesville loves an older tire, could be anywhere from 2 to 4 months during the warmer days, and even as old as 4 plus.. WC, Sugartit, Patriot usually a fresher tire, Patriot though in the summer heat and big race could be a month old. Liberty i was there for the Tri State and track was pretty good, JR3 we were month old. Woodleaf could be fresh to couple months from what im being told, havent been there in a while. Hanging Rock has been decent, i havent visited yet.
Now the amount of internal changes from the colder months to the warmer months as Chris said above. And whos internal you use may be differing in the amount as well.
Just the way i do things, it works, its simple, and it cuts tire cost.
kartboy337
Member
Kind of on this subject, and kind of different--but could someone give an explanation of when and why to use certain age tires? That's the biggest thing I'm struggling with right now. (I also realize this might be hidden information, so if nobody replies, I"ll understand.) It's just hard learning this, without any real guidance.
I'm still learning to so I know one of the tire guys will hopefully correct me. Inside roll manipulates sidewall as well as softens. As the tire ages it cures or hardens up. That is a different performance on the track than a freshly rolled tire the week you race. The surface may like a freshly rolled tired or require a more cured tire. Like a surface that's hard with grip would possibly want the cured 1 mth old over the fresh rubber. Depending on the track it may want a 2-4mth old cured tire.
kartboy337
Member
Ok, yeah I keep seeing people say a hard, gripped up track would like a cured tire, because of the stiffer sidewall. But, lately we have seen a very old tire is fast on a slick track. Does it have to do with the amount of total prep in the tire? Say, I wiped 2 sets the same amount the wek before the race. One 4 month old set, and one 1 month old set. The track was dusty slick, and but not hard. Correct duro was in the 45-48 range. The fastest tire was the older set. Why?
If that tire has been wiped on over the last few months in comparison to the fresher tire that hasn't as much then yes it could be because you have a deeper bite built into the older tire. If they have diff internal amounts could have an impact as well. There are so many variables that play into it. That's the most aggravating part, but also what makes the good ones really good. Shortening the learning curve is the trick. Saves money and frustration.
racing promotor
Moderator
It all boils down to yes current track condition the more grip the track has the more it works the tire, but the material make up of the surface dictates more there is a difference from dry hard surface with no abrasive make up than dry hard with abrasive material make up, BECAUSE the abrasive material will work the tire harder creating more heat thus a fresh tire may give up, where same Internal but cured tire will keep running because it's harder, it's all a balancing act and big part of why the front runners are the front runners they have a better feel for figuring that out plus trial and error, were you ever at a big money race where one of the front runners are in like 4 classes and one of them they are way off pace ? That's by design there testing for when the real money is on the line !!