Track Tac

Scuffing tires??

blh0728 said:
I have had plenty of success on Maxxis at the state level without "scuffing" tires. I use a grinder and grind off the top layer of tire and cut the tires a little. I use a torch to torch in prep but have never had a problem with prep not soaking in. All this being said, I would prefer a scuffed set but just because the tires are not scuffs doesn't mean that you can't compete
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I agree with the torch..if the only purpose of putting them on the track is to build heat, a box or torch can do that..
heres another question..if I heat a tire several times in a box..do the heat cycles make them more like older tire that has been run several times?
 
A torch will do the same thing as a heat cycle...kind of

Running the tire puts the rubber under loads that heat with a torch cant simulate....such as stretching the cords, sidewalls, etc
 
JPMKarting said:
A torch will do the same thing as a heat cycle...kind of

Running the tire puts the rubber under loads that heat with a torch cant simulate....such as stretching the cords, sidewalls, etc
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Exactly!! Scuffing a tire can only be done on the track, period. Heat cycle from scuffing is a lot different than a heat cycle from a torch, hot box, etc.
What Chris said is fairly true, but there are always exceptions, and i believe and know that Chris knows that. I know lots who scuff during practice the day of the race, and at times this works well also...but Chris was most referring to the Carolinas, concerning Maxxis, where a harder cured tire can work better, not always but most of the time.
 
SoCo Tire Treatments said:
Exactly!! Scuffing a tire can only be done on the track, period. Heat cycle from scuffing is a lot different than a heat cycle from a torch, hot box, etc.
What Chris said is fairly true, but there are always exceptions, and i believe and know that Chris knows that. I know lots who scuff during practice the day of the race, and at times this works well also...but Chris was most referring to the Carolinas, concerning Maxxis, where a harder cured tire can work better, not always but most of the time.
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Correct, there are always exceptions. But as you know in the Carolinas 75% of the time you will be on scuffs.
 
I will scuff all your tires with a kart for $10 bucks a tire...look at the cash that could be made...see me at a track near you with my scuffing experience...it will put you in the winners circle...just use a grinder flapper wheel n be done....they are just tires for go karts guys....LMBO...oh ya...I forgrot...they must be scuffed in according to what motor and class you plan to run...Let me know....LOL
 
bigcat6 said:
I will scuff all your tires with a kart for $10 bucks a tire...look at the cash that could be made...see me at a track near you with my scuffing experience...it will put you in the winners circle...just use a grinder flapper wheel n be done....they are just tires for go karts guys....LMBO...oh ya...I forgrot...they must be scuffed in according to what motor and class you plan to run...Let me know....LOL
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You fail to understand that when you "scuff" tires with a flapper, you arent putting them thru a true heat cycle like they need to have in order to really be scuffed in, you are just refinishing them is all. A real scuffed tire is one that has been thru a heat cycle and been worked on the track for so many laps, like someone said above it works the tire, puts the tire thru a load and works the sidewalls and chords in the tire, that is how you really scuff a tire. Then you allow that tire to cure for a set amount of time before running it. I would guarantee that you could scuff one set of tires the way everyone is telling you, set them up to cure for say a month, then prep them, and "scuff" another set your way and prep them, and the set that you did the right way like everyone is saying would be the faster tires and give you the faster lap times of the 2 sets. There is a reason this way is done by most racers, because it has been proven to work. If your selling people new scuffed tires done your way, id have to say your customers arent really getting what they are actually paying for. And i dont think id be the only one who agrees with that.
 
Weddle its not worth the time bud, the guy doesn't get it. If he has a winning program going then its by pure accident.
 
No accident...just win races....and yes I agree that they are faster after they have been run a few times....like a good engine...run better after a few races on them...But, no need to waste time doing tires on a kart if our way still wins races...because if so...it would say that if his tires had a heat cycle in them and ours didn't they wouldn't win a race Just cause his tires were scuffed in and cured and ours aren't...around here we cut every set through this shop...and put them on and win....that's all I can honestly say...and if it be my way or others ways...it all works in the long run....I can and have proven this in the last 19 years...when are most of you going to learn that I do and continue to learn above and beyond many of you about tires and prep...wish some day you could all meet in one place and have a pow wow...then you would understand me....JMO
 
Another thing...My customers don't care how the tires are done unless they aren't winning quiet often.....and neither should anyone elses...Tire guys do tires and engine builders build and do how we see fit...and hope it stays up front...Bottom line...CORRECT....
 
I had a long talk with Matt a palmetto speed shop not too long ago when we were running his prep line and his was driver was winning a good amount of big races BUT very rarely did he scuff a tire on a kart. He would sand a new tire clean with acrosol then put in a heat box and heat to a probe temp of the tire to 100° then take tires out let cool to outside temp then back in the hot box for 3 or 4 cycles. He theory was he was saving the spring rate on the sidewall and getting a few more good laps out of the tire. He said you can make a tire go thru heat cycles and grind the tire to the profile you want. Makes sense to some. I did a few sets that way this year and a few sets scuffed on the kart and both had great results not one better than the other. Jmo though. Earl at SoCo has great success with his preps and like he said it puts it thru a heat cycle. And kinda adds to Matts theory to a certain extent just comes down to different strokes for different folks.
 
Im not saying scuffing a tire is better than grinding or vice versa, what im saying is scuffing a tire is done on a kart, and when you put a grinder to a tire, it is grinding.
Both ways have a time and a place, and both can and will work.
 
blackwell42 said:
I had a long talk with Matt a palmetto speed shop not too long ago when we were running his prep line and his was driver was winning a good amount of big races BUT very rarely did he scuff a tire on a kart. He would sand a new tire clean with acrosol then put in a heat box and heat to a probe temp of the tire to 100° then take tires out let cool to outside temp then back in the hot box for 3 or 4 cycles. He theory was he was saving the spring rate on the sidewall and getting a few more good laps out of the tire. He said you can make a tire go thru heat cycles and grind the tire to the profile you want. Makes sense to some. I did a few sets that way this year and a few sets scuffed on the kart and both had great results not one better than the other. Jmo though. Earl at SoCo has great success with his preps and like he said it puts it thru a heat cycle. And kinda adds to Matts theory to a certain extent just comes down to different strokes for different folks.
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this is exactly what I said ...works very well...X2 on this...
 
blackwell42 said:
I had a long talk with Matt a palmetto speed shop not too long ago when we were running his prep line and his was driver was winning a good amount of big races BUT very rarely did he scuff a tire on a kart. He would sand a new tire clean with acrosol then put in a heat box and heat to a probe temp of the tire to 100° then take tires out let cool to outside temp then back in the hot box for 3 or 4 cycles. He theory was he was saving the spring rate on the sidewall and getting a few more good laps out of the tire. He said you can make a tire go thru heat cycles and grind the tire to the profile you want. Makes sense to some. I did a few sets that way this year and a few sets scuffed on the kart and both had great results not one better than the other. Jmo though. Earl at SoCo has great success with his preps and like he said it puts it thru a heat cycle. And kinda adds to Matts theory to a certain extent just comes down to different strokes for different folks.
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This is what we do with our tornado series tires basically as far as when we say heat cycle them along with all the other work... With that said we do scuff in tires also for certain tracks/races... Now with all that said I stick to what I said before as there is a difference in the two as Earl and Chris has stated earlier.
 
bigcat6 said:
this is exactly what I said ...works very well...X2 on this...
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That isnt even close to what you said. I know the guy who was doing this and nowhere did you say you put back into heat box several times, wiping with acrysol. He also never said this was scuffing, what he did do was scuff when he got to the race...as i mentioned earlier in this thread.
 
This bigcat guy finds the shred of info that's similar to his and then that's what I was saying. Yet the details in which he seems to have gotten there are completely different. Well bigcat I'll clue you in on something the rest of us notice, it's not the same. I don't care what you think but just because you think the end result is the same because maybe the tire feels similar, it's not and will not be on the track. Try going to something down south and see how well your "successful" program does.
 
Ive always heard a new tire is faster...with that theory..surfacing a tire with no heat, then running the tire on the track the first time should create the fastest lap of that tires life, right?....scuffing or surfacing with heat should will age the tire..thus creating a slower tire..based on that theory...

I know theres a time and place for every tire..BUT do most people agree that a new tire is faster the majority of the time?
 
idragit said:
Ive always heard a new tire is faster...with that theory..surfacing a tire with no heat, then running the tire on the track the first time should create the fastest lap of that tires life, right?....scuffing or surfacing with heat should will age the tire..thus creating a slower tire..based on that theory...

I know theres a time and place for every tire..BUT do most people agree that a new tire is faster the majority of the time?
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What people mean by that is date code of the tire most of the time. You can have a new set, and an old scuffed new set, and the later could be faster.
Most local Saturday night tracks in this area take a super soft to a moderate hard tire, so a new prepped set can and will be fine. Now get the competition level up at a Tri State, etc., and an older new scuffed set will shine.
What i mean by an older new scuffed set...a set with same date code thats been scuffed and put away for a couple, three weeks.
Of course this isnt the gospel, theres exceptions, weather, kart count, etc., play a role.
 
Just my two cents. We run a Burris 33 and the only way we can get it to work is to get them as hard as possible. We called burris and asked them how to SCUFF the tire and they told us to throw a new set on the kart, put 10 pounds of air in them, then take the kart to a parking lot and start do 20 some "laps". This opened up the tire for us to soak them in a special tire prep called Methanol. These tires are currently sitting in our unheated garage....
Its not quite rocket science guys
 
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