Spring rate

My strategy with using the data is matching up new sets of tires. I usually buy 2-3 new sets at a time. I use the lower spring rates for tires that I will prep and save the higher ones for no prep. I also have a selection of used tires available to me that constantly rotate. I cherry pick the high spring rate tires to purchase for my use. Depending on how much time I have I usually go through with a durometer and only SR test the higher duro tires. Some of what I will refer to as "surprise" tires are a 2 year old tires that were prepped heavy early in life and then sat for several (8+) months. I guess it makes sense that they are hard and most likely don't have many races on them so the SR is high. I've had decent results with these tires.
 

paulkish

old fart
My strategy with using the data is matching up new sets of tires. I usually buy 2-3 new sets at a time. I use the lower spring rates for tires that I will prep and save the higher ones for no prep. I also have a selection of used tires available to me that constantly rotate. I cherry pick the high spring rate tires to purchase for my use. Depending on how much time I have I usually go through with a durometer and only SR test the higher duro tires. Some of what I will refer to as "surprise" tires are a 2 year old tires that were prepped heavy early in life and then sat for several (8+) months. I guess it makes sense that they are hard and most likely don't have many races on them so the SR is high. I've had decent results with these tires.

Between your first post and this post it sounds like you already have your game plan for spring rate and duro.

How are you able to go thru so many tires without having to spend days of hours mounting and testing or do you also have a huge supply of rims?

From the experience you already seem to have I have a question.
How does your testing of tires on different width rims effect spring rate?
I think most will say widen the rim to increase spring rate?

Also just thought of another quick question for you.
Is there a percentage of increase or maybe a close to fixed number 1 or 1/2 pound increase of air causes?

And another. I suspect an increase in one pound of air does not change spring rate the same as a decrease in one pound of air.
Does your testing indicate anything similar?
 

paulkish

old fart
This has so far been a fun, interesting and learning thread.

Please keep it going I have to believe there a lot more to it then has been exposed.
even with the nay sayers trying hard to show the baby needs thrown out with the bath water. ... :)
 
Between your first post and this post it sounds like you already have your game plan for spring rate and duro.

How are you able to go thru so many tires without having to spend days of hours mounting and testing or do you also have a huge supply of rims?

From the experience you already seem to have I have a question.
How does your testing of tires on different width rims effect spring rate?
I think most will say widen the rim to increase spring rate?

Also just thought of another quick question for you.
Is there a percentage of increase or maybe a close to fixed number 1 or 1/2 pound increase of air causes?

And another. I suspect an increase in one pound of air does not change spring rate the same as a decrease in one pound of air.
Does your testing indicate anything similar?
I do have a plan but I'm not sure it's the best one or if I'm getting the most from it. I'm only testing right sides, and the majority of the time I'm using the same brand wheels. I usually have 20-25 sets of tires in our personal inventory and 10-20 sets available through other means. I try to buy 2 new sets of tires per month and cycle out 2 sets. I'm set-up fairly well with wheel inventory and mounting equipment but yes it takes time. The testing itself takes about 10 minutes per tire. I usually try to work in a set or 2 / week when I'm staggering tires throughout the week. It's rare for me to test a tire more than once within 3 months. I keep very good records on date tires are run, laps, and if any prep is used. When re-tested the change in spring rate is nominal on my no / light prep tires.

I've not intentionally tested different widths but agree with your hypothesis. I always test at the same air pressure and in a relatively stable climate environment. I'll share results if I try different air pressures.

I'm relatively new with only 5 years in the karting and have only been serious the past 2. This site has been instrumental in my learning. I truly appreciate the time folks spend providing info. I know that tires are a significant part of results in karting so when I learned about having this tool at my disposal I thought I would take advantage but want to sense check what I'm seeing and try to increase my knowledge.
 

King Cuts

Member
#1 - You’re wasting your time. There is SOOOO much more to be concerned with before this comes into play it isn’t funny.

If you’re not putting the right tire on with the right prep and the right amount of prep, this conversation doesn’t matter.

#2 - If you’re only testing the right sides then you’re really wasting your time. The LR is the dominant tire and that one matters most.

JMO

Troy A. Deppe
 

CarlsonMotorsports

Site Supporter
You're right to a certain extent on point #2, Troy, especially on big momentum tracks and current high cross set-ups.
At that point, simply choosing a higher spring rate LR would be advisable...but choosing a particular one (for the average racer anyway) would not be possible since most racers do not stock or cut their own tires.
I "think" the discussion was more on matching spring rates, which would be talking about the right sides.
 
#1 - You’re wasting your time. There is SOOOO much more to be concerned with before this comes into play it isn’t funny.

If you’re not putting the right tire on with the right prep and the right amount of prep, this conversation doesn’t matter.

#2 - If you’re only testing the right sides then you’re really wasting your time. The LR is the dominant tire and that one matters most.

JMO

Troy A. Deppe
Troy - Thank you for your input. I know you have a respectable program and am wanting to get there myself. If you were to list the other things to be concerned with above spring rate I'm going to guess that I'm already doing those things.

I can test left rear tires too. Once I have the data I'm not sure what I would do with it. That's the point of me asking for guidance on this forum.

I talk with some of the best Burris racers in KY, TN, NC, GA, and AL. In general, they are able to talk through tire selection by age, thickness, duro, profile, prep history, etc. If I mention spring rate most will admit that they don't know that much about it. I tend to think that 90% of the time spring rate just falls in place with all of the other characteristics of the tire. If there's something that I can learn or use from having the data I don't mind spending the time collecting it.
 

paulkish

old fart
Spring rate is still all about going fast thru the corner.

That being stated I think it then becomes all about how many g's you can obtain in a corner.
What is the highest G's you can get to indoor racing verses dirt bull ring verses big dirt oval?

These questions came to mind reading "the LR is the dominant tire", poo pooing knowledge of spring rates only on the right side tires.

Not that the poo pooing is not valid I don't have the experience to know but there are still two schools of racing on here which are the run it like a late model balancing the right side tires and the use the LR to help you turn and also balance the right side tires.

It's like do you unload the LR to help you or do you use the LR to help you and never will the two become one.

I'm not hyjacking this thread it's already been done when how tires are used in general is brought into the discussion.
I'm saying isn't all of it about how many g's you can make in a corner?
... then that just made me think isn't it about only making the g's needed in a corner?

And then the question comes to mind of can a motor cycle on two wheels make higher g's in a corner then a solid axle 4 wheel racer?
Good discussion and I don't know the answer but I know it's a good discussion when ton's of questions are brought up. ... :)

I think if you have more hp then needed then it's about how many g's you can make in a corner and if your lacking in hp it's about only making the g's necessary for your available hp. maybe????

I also think when you start mixing thoughts of each into a bucket what is really important and what is not becomes mixed up and confusing too.
 

Bradley71

Member
I just wish i was homies w burris bc i could get one badass tire made that looks identical to urs..😂😂😂😂money talks.i havent never seen anyone pull a tire off and put dial calipers on it to check sidewall thicknesses..
 

XXX#40

2A supporter
I just wish i was homies w burris bc i could get one badass tire made that looks identical to urs..😂😂😂😂money talks.i havent never seen anyone pull a tire off and put dial calipers on it to check sidewall thicknesses..
Re- caps are/were a thing.
Spring rate tester is a little more than that, but year waste of time.
I had a full set of Burris XP, once upon a time
 

Bradley71

Member
Re- caps are/were a thing.
Spring rate tester is a little more than that, but year waste of time.
I had a full set of Burris XP, once upon a time
This guy i know came to a race in indiana with some burris tires,i have no idea where he go em but they was slicks and i think 11.50 wide and flat.i dont know what they was.he said they was some prototype it was around 2014
 

Bradley71

Member
This guy i know came to a race in indiana with some burris tires,i have no idea where he go em but they was slicks and i think 11.50 wide and flat.i dont know what they was.he said they was some prototype it was around 2014
And i recall they said burris real big on sidewall..
 

Bradley71

Member
And i recall they said burris real big on sidewall..
Maybe burris will run across this and post some tires he made in past.but i think kurt burris and digitron guy was working with a track in vincennes indiana around that time and they wound up with them
 

CarlsonMotorsports

Site Supporter
I had a set of wide/flat right sides with Burris written on the sidewalls maybe 20 years ago -- Turns out they were "very creatively" disguised Firestone YJFs.
The guy had taken the time to razor blade off the raised molded "Burris" lettering from a Burris tire, and CA glued it onto a Firestone.
Supposedly they were not caught at some indoor races in Illinois that netted some wins. The extent that some people will go to get an advantage (legal or not.)
You could tell by simply looking at the profile of the tires that they were not Burris -- but ok. :)
I guarantee they were sprung differently than 33s or DXAs.
 

XXX#40

2A supporter
This guy i know came to a race in indiana with some burris tires,i have no idea where he go em but they was slicks and i think 11.50 wide and flat.i dont know what they was.he said they was some prototype it was around 2014
I got mine from Burris, they sponsored my track, and we put them on a show kart for the track, said XP where the compound number would be.
Was told to destroy them when finished, they were hard ½ way between 44 and 55
 

XXX#40

2A supporter
I had a set of wide/flat right sides with Burris written on the sidewalls maybe 20 years ago -- Turns out they were "very creatively" disguised Firestone YJFs.
The guy had taken the time to razor blade off the raised molded "Burris" lettering from a Burris tire, and CA glued it onto a Firestone.
Supposedly they were not caught at some indoor races in Illinois that netted some wins. The extent that some people will go to get an advantage (legal or not.)
You could tell by simply looking at the profile of the tires that they were not Burris -- but ok. :)
I guarantee they were sprung differently than 33s or DXAs.
Mine were what became the SS series, we were still in the DX series then and M15s
 

Bradley71

Member
I had a set of wide/flat right sides with Burris written on the sidewalls maybe 20 years ago -- Turns out they were "very creatively" disguised Firestone YJFs.
The guy had taken the time to razor blade off the raised molded "Burris" lettering from a Burris tire, and CA glued it onto a Firestone.
Supposedly they were not caught at some indoor races in Illinois that netted some wins. The extent that some people will go to get an advantage (legal or not.)
You could tell by simply looking at the profile of the tires that they were not Burris -- but ok. :)
I guarantee they were sprung differently than 33s or DXAs.
They was 11” he said that kurt sent them to him when he worked at smith bros..2014-2015 around then.i cant figure out how to get phone off bold😂🤷🏻‍♂️
 
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