Stagger calculater

alvin l nunley

Premium User
When you go around a corner, the rear tires are rolling on two different arcs. The RR on one arc, and the LR on a smaller arc. The idea of stagger is to have both tires rolling rather than having one sliding. Both tires are going to be turning the same number of rpm's, so the LR tire has to be smaller to be rolling on the smaller arc. This spreadsheet will do that for you, calculate what your stagger has to be depending on the radius of the turn and the distance between the 2 Rear Tires C-C. As you can see from the illustration, both tires are turning the same number of revolutions but their circumference is different (stagger) so both tires are rolling. The second illustration is the formulas in each cell of the spreadsheet.
 

rre

New member
thats a nifty calculator,

I just don't know what id do with the numbers?? maybe a tune a kart different than others, if you have the kart balanced, I use stagger to make changes to dial the kart in..

Most times you see people have kart on scales jacking weight, and end up chasing setup, if you know how stagger changes handling, you can tune with it.. this is also true for front tires..

Easy to do at track, but you need practice to make it work.. typically, you'll have a issue at both ends of track, or entry/exit issues, like a push in, and a loose off, just making a stagger change will help both.. stagger will help set the kart in the corner entry..
 

XXX#40

TRUMP 2020
When you go around a corner, the rear tires are rolling on two different arcs. The RR on one arc, and the LR on a smaller arc. The idea of stagger is to have both tires rolling rather than having one sliding. Both tires are going to be turning the same number of rpm's, so the LR tire has to be smaller to be rolling on the smaller arc. This spreadsheet will do that for you, calculate what your stagger has to be depending on the radius of the turn and the distance between the 2 Rear Tires C-C. As you can see from the illustration, both tires are turning the same number of revolutions but their circumference is different (stagger) so both tires are rolling. The second illustration is the formulas in each cell of the spreadsheet.
LOL God give it up
Your chart and my 20 years racing karts on dirt ovals disagree.
How many races has your chart won?
How many races have you won using your chart?
 

rre

New member
I think its a good tool..

Im sure alot of the top teams, scale kart, with different staggers, so there are a couple ways too tune, knowing how much to turn your jackers to give you a certain scale out.. then being able to get that same difference when you change stagger.

Heres the kicker.. you set stagger for corner, then you lose on straight.. typically you want a kart with as little stagger as possible, and still be able to get it in/thru corner..

So if you have to add stagger on right rear, you would be better off adjusting chassis, to get scale numbers, and using less stagger, alot of times you don't have time, to adjust, thats why its important to know what stagger does to kart..

Theres more than one way to skin a cat.. the key is to know when to add rr stagger, or jack weight.. etc..
 

XXX#40

TRUMP 2020
I think its a good tool..

Im sure alot of the top teams, scale kart, with different staggers, so there are a couple ways too tune, knowing how much to turn your jackers to give you a certain scale out.. then being able to get that same difference when you change stagger.

Heres the kicker.. you set stagger for corner, then you lose on straight.. typically you want a kart with as little stagger as possible, and still be able to get it in/thru corner..

So if you have to add stagger on right rear, you would be better off adjusting chassis, to get scale numbers, and using less stagger, alot of times you don't have time, to adjust, thats why its important to know what stagger does to kart..

Theres more than one way to skin a cat.. the key is to know when to add rr stagger, or jack weight.. etc..
lol i walk up to the track look and know what stagger to run, what little you lose on the straight is negated by what you gain through the corner, anyone can be fast down a straight.
Turn jackers?
When we adjust Stagger its not with the RR its with the LR
But what do i know
Major chassis sponsorship(you dont get those from not knowing what to do)
9 years working for a major chassis company
My driver(My son) won over 150 features and 10 track championships(at 5 different tracks) before the age of 16, he's now 25 and a crew chief for Dakota "Showtime" Knuckles
 

rre

New member
Are we talking late models or karts?

While your patting yourself on the back..... on your late model, don't you have spring jackers?
 

XXX#40

TRUMP 2020
Are we talking late models or karts?

While your patting yourself on the back..... on your late model, don't you have spring jackers?
We are talking about karts
Jack bolts on latemodels yes
95% of the time cross is adjusted on a kart with washers on the front end, some older karts had a bolt to turn but was inconsistent and was scraped, as was the adjustable cassettes, we dont use stagger to adjust cross, if we increase or decrease stagger the cross is reset
 

XXX#40

TRUMP 2020
K, whatever works for you..
Its not only me it works for, every top team in the country will use this method
Its weight jackers worked on karts every kart would come new with them, and every kart would have them.
If you have a jack bolt on the front of a kart its an outdated kart
 

rre

New member
Really, having built a few karts.. i have jackers on both fronts, a jacker on rr, and a lead on lr.. as far as i know, most karts have had screw jackers since around 1996 or so..

We haven't used washers in years.. like 20......
 

XXX#40

TRUMP 2020
Really, having built a few karts.. i have jackers on both fronts, a jacker on rr, and a lead on lr.. as far as i know, most karts have had screw jackers since around 1996 or so..

We haven't used washers in years.. like 20......
LOL right
I worked for a major kart chassis manufacturer for 9 years from 2004-2013 and zero of their karts had weight jacks on the front
Phantom doesnt
Ultramax doesnt
Trick doesnt
Slack doesnt
Shadow doesnt
They all use washers for cross adjustment
In fact the last chassis company that offered a jack bolt on the front was Stinger who went under back in early 2000's


Lead is a front end term Lead/Lag when you move the rear axle forward or aft of the other side you only adjusting the Yaw/offset of a chassis and altering the path the rear tires take opposed to the fronts
 

XXX#40

TRUMP 2020
Wrong. Prokart has jackers on the front to this day.
LOL Pro Kart
How many big races has Pro kart won in the SE?
1 outta how many top chassis builders?
Ive used jack bolt on the front, make 1 turn in direction, make 1 turn in the opposite direction and it doesnt go back to where it was before the turn, thats why every MAJOR chassis manufacturer has or never has used them
 

foreverfaster

Premium User
Lead is a front end term Lead/Lag when you move the rear axle forward or aft of the other side you only adjusting the Yaw/offset of a chassis and altering the path the rear tires take opposed to the fronts
Now there's a bit of great information !
Can you create a new post explaining in greater detail?? Please !
is it about being square (axle and spindles VS length one side vs other??)
 

JPMKarting

Premium User
LOL Pro Kart
How many big races has Pro kart won in the SE?
1 outta how many top chassis builders?
Ive used jack bolt on the front, make 1 turn in direction, make 1 turn in the opposite direction and it doesnt go back to where it was before the turn, thats why every MAJOR chassis manufacturer has or never has used them
Do ya really think using washers instead of jackbolts is what makes a "top chassis builder"?
 

XXX#40

TRUMP 2020
Do ya really think using washers instead of jackbolts is what makes a "top chassis builder"?
No I dont, but if jackbolt were the cats meow you can bet your last dollar Phantom and the rest of the top chassis builders would have them on the karts
 

jacobsdad

Member
Either way, weight jack or no weight jack, I think this calculator would be a good tool for a beginner until they gained that "feel" for what the track calls for. It would not be useful for a lot of guys though unless they were able to go out and measure the track to find the exact radius of the turns, then assuming the turns on both ends of the track are the same. The track my son raced on last year the radius was not the same on each end. Possibly when the track was made they didn't use precision instruments in laying out the track, or it could have just changed from many years of working the track changing things an inch at a time.
I am curious what effect it would have on the calculations if the driving line changed week to week? If one week it was a little muddier so the best line was 3 feet up the track for example. This would not effect the measured radius of the track itself, but would it effect the radius of the turn in the line the kart was driving and would that change be enough to cause a change in stagger?
 

alvin l nunley

Premium User
I am curious what effect it would have on the calculations if the driving line changed week to week? If one week it was a little muddier so the best line was 3 feet up the track for example. This would not effect the measured radius of the track itself, but would it effect the radius of the turn in the line the kart was driving and would that change be enough to cause a change in stagger?
If you had the stagger calculator you could figure it out. Give me a for instance. It would depend a little on where you started the turn and where you finish the turn. I'm thinking if you're driving up close to the wall, and that's where you enter into the turn, and when you come out of the turn your close to the wall, regardless if you're up four feet from the apex in the middle, that doesn't change the radius much. If you change your entry and exit positions, that might make a difference, it's called tuning, and tuning is tough.

I can't see how it makes any sense to tune your handling with a change in stagger. A lot of people do it from what I hear. If you have your stagger right, and you're having trouble with the handling, I'm guessing the handling problem is somewhere else.

There's not much you can do about a track that has two different radius turns. My guess; average them out. You could set the stagger for one turn and just try to manage the other turn. Which turn you set the stagger for is part of a thing called "tuning".

In the end, one tire is traveling a shorter distance than the other tire, you set the stagger for the turn radius hoping to keep both tires rolling instead of having one sliding. A sliding tire (your dragging it) has less traction than a rolling tire. (That's the reason for antilock brakes) If the staggers not right, your dragging one tire, that can't help your speed. It's bad enough that you have to drag it down the straight. No sense dragging it through the turns too.

I laugh when these guys who have been racing 10 to 20 years tell me my radius calculator has no use at the track, not for them at least. They forget those years when they were learning.
 
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