Stagger

MAS

Member
So last year a guy got me on to trying 2 inch stagger for a short bullring type track with tight corners. Is there any disadvantage to too much stagger if the kart is turning good in the corner?
 
So last year a guy got me on to trying 2 inch stagger for a short bullring type track with tight corners. Is there any disadvantage to too much stagger if the kart is turning good in the corner?
If to much rear stagger the kart will be loose ( quick snap ) middle to off if that's happening it's a disadvantage, If that's not happening and you have good crisp rotation you don't have to much rear stagger just because it's more than most, So NO disadvantage. With that being said the least you can run BUT still maintain good crisp rotation the faster you'll be !!
 
If to much rear stagger the kart will be loose ( quick snap ) middle to off if that's happening it's a disadvantage, If that's not happening and you have good crisp rotation you don't have to much rear stagger just because it's more than most, So NO disadvantage. With that being said the least you can run BUT still maintain good crisp rotation the faster you'll be !!
Is there a difference as to why you want the front less then the rear?
 
Is there a difference as to why you want the front less then the rear?
The front you set 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" and pretty much let it alone, If the rear ends up more than front so be it, So NO reasoning in front being less than the rear other than that.
 
If that stagger is working, go for it.

My suspicion is being higher than you need to be could scrub speed on the straights. But on a small bullring that would be less of a consideration.

Personally I dont take much stock in front stagger. Like Kania said, it is more of an indirect measure of other things than a primary adjustment
 
I have a spreadsheet that will calculate your stagger's, not perfect, but it will get you close. It takes a little work, you need to know the width of the track and the width of the infield.
It's true, (I think) that when you have the "wrong" stagger, handley is impaired. Too much and you have problems, too little and you have problems. The track, as described, probably needs a lot of stagger, but that's just a guess, based on your description, which is,..... a little vague.
It's my belief, when the kart is not handling right, changing the stagger is just a Band-Aid to cover up the real problem. Of course that's assuming that the stagger is perfect. It's my belief that every track has "the perfect" stagger measurement. And I believe it can be calculated, the stagger, with-in a small margin of error.
 
I’ll agree with the band aid remark. I ran a smaller bullring but it had decent straights and always had stagger scrub in mind but it had to turn lol. Years ago there ran 1 1/4 then everyone started running 1 1/2 rear. Did some things and was comfortably able to run 1 to 1 1/8 rear.
 
I have a spreadsheet that will calculate your stagger's, not perfect, but it will get you close. It takes a little work, you need to know the width of the track and the width of the infield.
It's true, (I think) that when you have the "wrong" stagger, handley is impaired. Too much and you have problems, too little and you have problems. The track, as described, probably needs a lot of stagger, but that's just a guess, based on your description, which is,..... a little vague.
It's my belief, when the kart is not handling right, changing the stagger is just a Band-Aid to cover up the real problem. Of course that's assuming that the stagger is perfect. It's my belief that every track has "the perfect" stagger measurement. And I believe it can be calculated, the stagger, with-in a small margin of error.
Not to highjack the thread but...

In my mind, stagger has less to do with a specific track, and more to do with a specific kart. If your setup is different from the "perfect" setup, then your stagger would have to be different as well.
 
Not to highjack the thread but...

In my mind, stagger has less to do with a specific track, and more to do with a specific kart. If your setup is different from the "perfect" setup, then your stagger would have to be different as well.
My contention is that; every track has an ideal (very hard to find) stagger. If your kart is traveling a perfect arc, and few do, then you can calculate the ideal stagger. "Ideal stagger" means, both tires are rolling, neither is sliding. Very hard to achieve, simply because, seldom is the arc perfect. I think it can be shown that the line most karts follow is a combination of an arc and a parabola. With a parabola, (a constantly changing radius line) any stagger you use will only be corrected at one point of the parabola. Wikipedia has a listing for parabola. "Parabola" is not one particular arc, but a name for a type of arc, who's measurements are (most probably) infinite.
 
If that stagger is working, go for it.

My suspicion is being higher than you need to be could scrub speed on the straights. But on a small bullring that would be less of a consideration.

Personally I dont take much stock in front stagger. Like Kania said, it is more of an indirect measure of other things than a primary adjustment
on a bull ring you are never going straight, you are constantly traveling in an arc
 
on a bull ring you are never going straight, you are constantly traveling in an arc
Maybe in your experience, but I could imagine where that might not be true, it would all depend on the radius of the turns. Tighter radius turns would mean longer straights. I always find it interesting that people describe tracks as bullring's, or 1/10, maybe shorter, but they seldom, if ever, mentioned the radius of the turns.
 
Maybe in your experience, but I could imagine where that might not be true, it would all depend on the radius of the turns. Tighter radius turns would mean longer straights. I always find it interesting that people describe tracks as bullring's, or 1/10, maybe shorter, but they seldom, if ever, mentioned the radius of the turns.
Big difference my EXPERIENCE vs your IMAGINATION
I dont care what the radius of the turns are, that is unimportant info to me.
Doesnt matter if its a 1/10 the way we run ovals its still a continual arc
 
Increasing stagger does two things.
1. It increases the difference in the surface speed of the two rear tires.
2. It alters ride height.

edit; three things
3. It changes rear tire camber.
That's all it does.

The rest is about how the difference in tire surface speed and ride height, changes how you need to or can use your two rear tire when turning or not.

Using the LR tire as an example an increase in stagger because of the increase in the difference of the LR tires surface speed compared to the RR, will increase your ability to either slip the LR or use the LR tire for an anchor or rudder depending on your available grip at the LR tire.

If you increase stagger and can push the LR tire into the track well enough to increase it's available grip you will increase your ability to roll the RR around the LR.

If you increase stagger and cannot also increase available grip or use additional grip already available at the LR, you will loose rotation and put additional lateral load on the RR. It will also demand you use your front tires more to get needed total rotation which will also move you towards a loose condition.

The net of it is if you increase stagger and cannot use grip already available to you or cannot apply more weight/grip to the LR, you will move towards or become loose. If you get too loose beyond expectation of being free, you either have to slow down or encounter a snap loose.

There can be a perfect balance between turning power of your front tires and rotation from the rears.
Loose rotation help from the rear and you must use your fronts more which will move your towards loose.

Too much rotation from the rear two tires and your fronts will have to fight the added rotation from the rears.
The fighting between the front and back for control of direction will reduce over all grip.

And all the above is also dependent on your speed entering, speed of momentum maintained or exit and available hp.

Yes in general increasing stagger increases your ability to rotate dependent on the amount of turning your doing and/or track configuration..
But it's all dependent you your ability to use available grip at each of your four tires at every place on the track, not your ability to calculate.
 
Last edited:
... never thought about it much before but might there be more too how a stagger change effects rear wheel camber?
Doesn't a little bit up front make a difference and if so why wouldn't a little bit of a change in camber in the back make a difference?

maybe????????????
 
Something I've been wondering about; how much change in ride height would it take before you would start feeling a difference? A quarter inch, a half inch?
 
Back
Top