alvin l nunley
Site Supporter
I get the feeling you're not a fan of the "measure the turn radius method"?
Staggered tires
- Thread starter KartingIMG
- Start date
Pete_Muller
Moderator
Here are 3 different lines around a track which has 75' inside of corner radius, and 115' outside of corner radius. Depending on track condition, other drivers getting in the way, how the kart is working... these are 3 different lines around the track (out of probably an unlimited number). What does math say the stagger should be?
I believe what the experienced guys here are saying is that they look at the condition of the track, their setup, maybe where the fast line was for the previous couple of heats, and they intuitively know what the stagger should be (or at least damn close).
There is no doubt that with simple math, corner radius vs. distance between rear tire contact patches can arrive at some value for the "ideal" stagger -- but the problems are: the line is always changing, the track is always changing, and the kart is probably rarely going in a straight line on most tracks (it's *always* turning to some degree).
And so my take is... math is fine, but handling is such difficult thing to quantify that the guys with experience are subconsciously blending a lot of different things and they know where to start, and which direction to go to achieve a desired result. Math doesn't cut it... far too many variables.
Now if someone wanted to use math to determine the largest radius turn the kart ever makes (bend in the straightaway), and tightest turn the kart ever makes (following the inside of the corner all the way around it), and come up with a range where the math says: "stagger should be between this value and that value", then there might be something.
PM
I believe what the experienced guys here are saying is that they look at the condition of the track, their setup, maybe where the fast line was for the previous couple of heats, and they intuitively know what the stagger should be (or at least damn close).
There is no doubt that with simple math, corner radius vs. distance between rear tire contact patches can arrive at some value for the "ideal" stagger -- but the problems are: the line is always changing, the track is always changing, and the kart is probably rarely going in a straight line on most tracks (it's *always* turning to some degree).
And so my take is... math is fine, but handling is such difficult thing to quantify that the guys with experience are subconsciously blending a lot of different things and they know where to start, and which direction to go to achieve a desired result. Math doesn't cut it... far too many variables.
Now if someone wanted to use math to determine the largest radius turn the kart ever makes (bend in the straightaway), and tightest turn the kart ever makes (following the inside of the corner all the way around it), and come up with a range where the math says: "stagger should be between this value and that value", then there might be something.
PM
The problem with these theories is that it is assumed both rear tires produce the same traction all the way around the track. The truth is, tires ability to produce traction is directly related to the weight on them.
Weight transfer constantly alters the weight distribution across the rear axle, changing the traction available to each tire. The vcg has a large effect on this, as well as static weight distribution and g forces applied to the vcg.
Manipulating the weight distribution to the tires in the dynamic state has a large affect on making use of the stagger. Also contributes to selecting the correct stagger to produce lowest lap times.
If you look at chassis adjustment sheets, every adjustment manipulates the dynamic weight distribution.
Again, the calculations are intended to show how stagger works. They assume that traction is equal on both tires.
Some believe if the tire is in contact with the track, it is always producing maximum traction.
Weight transfer constantly alters the weight distribution across the rear axle, changing the traction available to each tire. The vcg has a large effect on this, as well as static weight distribution and g forces applied to the vcg.
Manipulating the weight distribution to the tires in the dynamic state has a large affect on making use of the stagger. Also contributes to selecting the correct stagger to produce lowest lap times.
If you look at chassis adjustment sheets, every adjustment manipulates the dynamic weight distribution.
Again, the calculations are intended to show how stagger works. They assume that traction is equal on both tires.
Some believe if the tire is in contact with the track, it is always producing maximum traction.
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