JoshuaGuiher
Member
That's why I bought a motor from a guy at this track that is illegal as all hell. So was the plate clone he sold me. Here is the plate that came out of the clone and ask Don about the Predator cams. He still has one of them.
Stock predator rules
- Thread starter bullerman
- Start date
intimidator7x
Member
The predator class was something I was interested in into getting my teenage son introduced in the flat kart scene. I spoke to a well known engine builder about the predator and even the clone option.... 5 minutes later he had me convinced the flathead was our best option. At least In our area. The predators have gotten outta hand similar to what the clones have . Not surprisingly though. We all race to win. I like the lo206 idea however it’s not very strong in my neck of the woods.
You know the nice thing about predators at k3. My kart won the predator dirt classic, no one claimed us so the track did. Took our motor for the fairgrounds to use and gsve me a motor in the box.
DynoDon
Moderator
For those of you who don't know, that picture of xxx40 was taken back in the day before box stock project brought the first yellow clone over the water. His crew of racers actually started the movement of the harbor freight out of the box engine. Then builders got their hands on it. Then rules had to be designed. Then the clone was developerd. So when he says he has been down that road, he knows what that road can lead to. Feel free to correct me xxx40 if IAM wrong
XXX#40
2A supporter
Spot on Don, its either race them straight out of the box, with the gov. intact and an rpm rule, and a 125.00 claim rule.
Or it turns into another engine builder class
JoshuaGuiher
Member
Because for some reason most areas of the country would rather argue over 4 different motors instead of just getting a $800 LO206?
Compu-kart
Member
XXX#40
2A supporter
Since you wasnt here, and dont understand, Brigg's tried to force racers to run the animal, that didnt go over too well. the animals prices jumped to flathead prices at the time, so thats why we have the clones
$800? might as well run the clones.
Seals arent fool proof, and they are reason for tech guys to get lazy about tech.
Keep them just like they came out of the box, rpm rule and a low claim, with the track being able to claim an engine at any time
$125.00 claim keeps guys from spending too much, stock carb, stock exhaust, gov. functioning, and 5500 rpms max
JoshuaGuiher
Member
There are very few parts of the country running predator like you suggest. Even here in PA, where Don has tried to keep the rules the same, it is down to just a few tracks running that rule set.
Won't be long before you have a 4th $800 motor option, splitting classes instead of having big fields. Hell look at this new Rush deal in western PA. I don't care what the reason is that it happened, these are things that kill racing.
Lazy tech is lazy tech, can't blame that on seals.
Someone ...
Member
In my experience, it is extremely tough to keep cheating out of box stock motors. Especially in the case of a foreign-sourced motor like the Predator - Harbor Freight currently has four part numbers listed for the "same" engine! At the price they're selling you can't expect that they are very tight on tolerances, nor that they won't source from yet another factory. Racers are going to tinker and try to get away with whatever they can. They will even find ways to duplicate seals. Or the guys with enough budget can buy many motors and test them all to determine the best - even mix and match parts, then reassemble them to pass for original factory builds.
Tracks can try to regulate by handing out motors and / or tires, but now that's more work on them plus the racers have to reassemble their karts at the track every race day. Still hard to regulate what racers do with the stuff while it's in their hands, unless the track wants to monitor them all night. I remember in the flathead days a track using certain colored paints to mark previously verified parts... changing it every week... people in the pits were bringing a bunch of paints so they could duplicate those marks unto illegal engine parts. Saw another guy get mad because his assigned engine wasn't "good" so he dumped some grit in its oil and ran it until it started smoking before he turned it back in - wanted another one because this one was "defective".
IMHO, you have to take away their incentive to cheat. One way is to limit the payout to low amounts not based upon the number of entries. Small purses don't lure the guys looking for money. Many tracks base payout on numbers of entries... when big budget teams notice that the Predator class is getting big they see it as easy pickings. Plus then they talk the track operators into adding money races... and soon the true low budget / entry level teams can't compete so they quit. If they capped the purse low then those big money guys wouldn't be interested. I hate to run people off, but that's exactly what high purses are doing to this "entry level" class. To me, $25 to win and $15 for second and $5 for third - and that's it - is enough for a entry level fun class. Let all of the other entry fee money go to the track to be used elsewhere. No money races. Also keep the engines out-of-the-box stock with no modifications, like the Penn Creek guys do. If you don't like that there are plenty of other higher-paying classes for you to go to.
Tracks can try to regulate by handing out motors and / or tires, but now that's more work on them plus the racers have to reassemble their karts at the track every race day. Still hard to regulate what racers do with the stuff while it's in their hands, unless the track wants to monitor them all night. I remember in the flathead days a track using certain colored paints to mark previously verified parts... changing it every week... people in the pits were bringing a bunch of paints so they could duplicate those marks unto illegal engine parts. Saw another guy get mad because his assigned engine wasn't "good" so he dumped some grit in its oil and ran it until it started smoking before he turned it back in - wanted another one because this one was "defective".
IMHO, you have to take away their incentive to cheat. One way is to limit the payout to low amounts not based upon the number of entries. Small purses don't lure the guys looking for money. Many tracks base payout on numbers of entries... when big budget teams notice that the Predator class is getting big they see it as easy pickings. Plus then they talk the track operators into adding money races... and soon the true low budget / entry level teams can't compete so they quit. If they capped the purse low then those big money guys wouldn't be interested. I hate to run people off, but that's exactly what high purses are doing to this "entry level" class. To me, $25 to win and $15 for second and $5 for third - and that's it - is enough for a entry level fun class. Let all of the other entry fee money go to the track to be used elsewhere. No money races. Also keep the engines out-of-the-box stock with no modifications, like the Penn Creek guys do. If you don't like that there are plenty of other higher-paying classes for you to go to.
DynoDon
Moderator
When you have an engine on the market that doesn't have any specs for a tech to follow cheating is prevalent to those who are looking and don't know what they are looking at or for. There has been no training as yet for techs to inspect. I am considering a tech seminar for the predator combined with a lesson on proper procedure of tech tool usage at the Big East Expo on Jan 25 to be held in Dewart/Watsontoen Pa. There are ways to determine if the predator from HF has been worked. If we pay attention to this engine and keep the builders out of it and convince the promotors to let it alone it can be teched
silverback
Member
I hope you will be putting it on at OVKA as well.
silverback
Member
Can't you reschedule? LOL
