Stuck rings

98xtc

New member
Hi, As the title says having a problem with stuck rings. Running a GX200 stock,governor removed,advance timing key(6degree) header. Motor turns about 5500 running 90 octane non ethanol gas. Motor will run great for a while and then loose power puff a little and die. This has happen with 2 different motors and numerous times. Pull them apart and every time top compression ring is stuck in ring groove. I have replaced pistons,replaced rings same thing keeps happening. This last time we only got 2 races out of it. The engine setup is the same thing everyone else is running but we seem to be only one with this problem. Looking for any ideas,advice it’s starting to get old but I will say my 14 year old son is getting pretty good at pooping them apart and putting back together. Have tried different oils and it has happen with every brand( Amsoil Briggs 4T, Royal Purple, Mobil 1)
Thanks
 
When that happens with a 2 cycle, it's because the engine was too lean.
Do you have gauges? I always ran the EGT (exhaust gas temperature gauge) because when you go too lean, the fuel starts detonating, the engine gets hot and melts the piston. Pretty much the same way that you are describing your engine.
Some information that would be handy; air density and jet sizes. Did you "drill" the jets? Do you have pin gauges to measure the jet size?
 
When that happens with a 2 cycle, it's because the engine was too lean.
Do you have gauges? I always ran the EGT (exhaust gas temperature gauge) because when you go too lean, the fuel starts detonating, the engine gets hot and melts the piston. Pretty much the same way that you are describing your engine.
Some information that would be handy; air density and jet sizes. Did you "drill" the jets? Do you have pin gauges to measure the jet size?
Don’t have egt, plug looks good after being run for a while. Stock jets are between 72and 78 I have had it happen running 78 jet and also with 72. Wondering if I should try jumping up to a 93 octane gas,we have to run pump gas
 
Don’t have egt, plug looks good after being run for a while. Stock jets are between 72and 78 I have had it happen running 78 jet and also with 72. Wondering if I should try jumping up to a 93 octane gas,we have to run pump gas
I know very little about that carburetor, but from what I've heard, 78 sounds like a pretty small jet. I'm pretty sure 93 octane is not going to solve the problem.
 
Why are they stuck ? Build up on the ring ? Groove collapse ?
What do you do to correct it ?
Are you lapping the rings in ? What ring groove clearance ?
Ring gap too tight?
Piston hitting the head or gasket ?
 
Not an expert, but isn't that timing advance a little much for a stock engine? I mean there's not a whole lot of air/fuel mixture passing through a stock carb to begin with, sounds like it's being given too much time to burn what fuel mixture us in there causing the top of the piston and around the ring groove to over heat causing distortion and eventually motor failure....might want to recheck flywheel to make sure it hasn't slipped causing even further over advance...if it's good, put the stock flywheel key back in and see if that has any impact....
 
If you are running a 2 cycle and get overly aggressive with setting ignition advance and/also letting motor run too lean, exact same thing happens, cylinder overheats, piston/ring distort and motor shuts down quickly.... aka "sticking it"....
 
If you are running a 2 cycle and get overly aggressive with setting ignition advance and/also letting motor run too lean, exact same thing happens, cylinder overheats, piston/ring distort and motor shuts down quickly.... aka "sticking it"....
Yes it goes something like this . Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-Whomp- silence .
Grumble , Grumble , €£{\~¤》¿¡¥⊙¤°•!!
 
Are you using OEM Honda rings on an OEM honda piston, do you measure the ring to land clearance, what end gap are you running?
 
Are you using OEM Honda rings on an OEM honda piston, do you measure the ring to land clearance, what end gap are you running?
Yes, using stock Honda piston and rings I usually just put the new takeoff piston and rings from NR Racing so I just pop them in.This has happen to brand new engines also. Wondering myself about the timing key but that is what everyone else says they are running, maybe try cutting back to 4 degrees.
 
Kart 43 is a honda genius so follow his advice .
Sounds like not enough ring land clearance .
Hundreds run without issue with big timing .
 
You got to start measuring things and make clearance adjustments not just put it together. Sometimes rings will have flashing, rough edges or machine marks. You have to smooth all that out, clean everything then check side and end clearance. Assemble with oil. You're running this thing flat out, it's got to be different than factory spec.
 
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You got to start measuring things and make clearance adjustments not just put it together. Sometimes rings will have flashing, rough edges or machine marks. You have to smooth all that out, clean everything then check side and end clearance. Assemble with oil. You're running this thing flat out, it's got to be different than factory spec.
What would be recommendations for side clearance and ring end gap? What do you use to smooth sides of rings like a 600/800 grit wet/dry on a flat surface.
 
That works . EC recomended a second polish on Brown paper bag for mirror finish .
I will say .008 .012 and .014 as minimums .
 
Right out of the box no measurements, stock OEM rings, on a stock OEM Honda piston have no reason to stick. Stock Honda GX200 are 20* BTDC so you have a ign timing of 26* BTDC that is not your problem. You are missing something. What oil are you using? How much oil? What head gasket are you using? Does the head gasket overhang the bore edges? Show a picture, Are you using the thick rings or the 1mm thin ring, are you using the proper piston with the appropriate ring? These engines without opening them will run 6000 RPM all day on synthetic oil.
 
Right out of the box no measurements, stock OEM rings, on a stock OEM Honda piston have no reason to stick. Stock Honda GX200 are 20* BTDC so you have a ign timing of 26* BTDC that is not your problem. You are missing something. What oil are you using? How much oil? What head gasket are you using? Does the head gasket overhang the bore edges? Show a picture, Are you using the thick rings or the 1mm thin ring, are you using the proper piston with the appropriate ring? These engines without opening them will run 6000 RPM all day on synthetic oil.
I know there has to be something I am missing and it’s driving me crazy and it is probably something dumb. To answer your questions, have used Royal Purple,Amsoil/Briggs 4T, Mobil 1 has happened with all. Low oil sensor is removed just fill it to full on dip stick. Head gasket is the stock Honda gx200 Metal. Pistons and rings are the thin rings most of them being new takeoffs from NR Racing so they are the rings the factory put on them. When I have put new rings on existing piston you can spin them nice and free when they are on. This has happened to new engines that all I have done is remove governor and add timing key and it has been 2 different engines. By our tach we are turning around 5500-5600 RPM
 
If your engine is on a 15* mount how are you using the dpistick, put 16oz of oil in it and ignore the dipstick.
 
Our engines are not mounted on an angled mount they are flat. I go by rear dipstick but it is about 16oz when I change it.
 
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