Tapered Roller Bearings - Karting

NAPA28 said:
Most still do.
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/...6XMf1nQsm6XBjn0USfbszyroaeqGmljqrhYPbuvf5ZTZw

That's why torqueing the front hubs is so important on cars now. Seen hundreds of defective bearings because the "neighbor mechanic" threw it on and just snugged it or used an impact on the center nut
Click to expand...
I also have replaced many GM hub's as well as latemodel jeeps, have had some just fall apart in my hand, and they dont have tapered bearings in the front or rear
wheel_hub_bearing_Jeep_front_wheel_bearing.jpg
 
Someone wants to run tapered bearings?? Well I guess you better just go for it. Tell us how much faster the lap times are.
I've told you the danger, which I personally witnessed.
Tapered bearings have been tried for years, and have never shown a reduction in lap times.
No less than Mr.Buller himself told me, years ago, that they had tested these things in every practical way possible
and the taper'd bearings offered no advantage, whatever.
 
So because tapered bearings don't make you faster, they're unsafe. Sheesh. I never said they were as fast or faster, just that they are every bit as safe if not more-so than ball bearings.

As far as the bearing spitting out because the nut came off, not the bearing's fault someone didn't safely secure a nut. One reason I NEVER re-use cotter pins right there. I'm sure there have been far more wheels flying because someone neglected to properly tighten them to the hub than there was a tapered bearing failure. You just can't idiot-proof everything.
 
I'd have to agree with Vintagequest here. What of the guys that clearance their front wheel hubs so that their ball bearings are a slip fit? Should this be illegal because it's unsafe for the same reasoning too? The slip fit ball bearing can fall out of the hub just as easily as a taper bearing (IF the cotterpin fails and the spindle nut falls off.)
I've seen far more flywheels, chains, clutches, connecting rods, etc fly apart than taper bearings over the 40 years that I've been around karting.

Maybe taper bearings aren't enough better to merit their expense and use in karts. Maybe the same can be said for ceramics. I'm not wanting to dispute the advantages or disadvantages of each, but fail to see how the decision making process behind the powers that be decided that taper bearings are unsafe due to what appears to have been user error. Regardless of the tragedy that Paul is speaking of, racing is, and always will be, a very dangerous sport.
 
Is there any hub out there that doesn't fly off if the spindle nut comes free? I started racing with tapered roller Timken(tm) bearings packed with CV grease. They were no better or worse than what I use on a kart now with the exception that it was a pain to pack them properly by hand (messy!!). I use fresh nylocks on my spindles or castle nuts with cotters, never had an issue.
 
PD Power said:
If the spindle nut comes loose....the bearing shoots off the end of the spindle.
One of our very best racers had to be air lifted to the hospital......SERIOUSLY injured when that exact thing happened.

Furthermore that tapered bearing idea is not exactly new. It has tested exhaustively for years. It offered exactly NO value to corner
speed or handling.
Click to expand...
What is the value of the tapered bearing? The drawback has been mentioned, is a facual event......and is not illusionary, as is the hoped for worth of the tapered set.

Give us a rational reason to use them.
 
CarlsonMotorsports said:
I'd have to agree with Vintagequest here. What of the guys that clearance their front wheel hubs so that their ball bearings are a slip fit? Should this be illegal because it's unsafe for the same reasoning too? The slip fit ball bearing can fall out of the hub just as easily as a taper bearing (IF the cotterpin fails and the spindle nut falls off.)
I've seen far more flywheels, chains, clutches, connecting rods, etc fly apart than taper bearings over the 40 years that I've been around karting.

Maybe taper bearings aren't enough better to merit their expense and use in karts. Maybe the same can be said for ceramics. I'm not wanting to dispute the advantages or disadvantages of each, but fail to see how the decision making process behind the powers that be decided that taper bearings are unsafe due to what appears to have been user error. Regardless of the tragedy that Paul is speaking of, racing is, and always will be, a very dangerous sport.
Click to expand...
I do not know how or why, I do know it had to be a knee jerk reaction. see it all the time from the safety department. Hit hand with hammer , now you are no longer to hold anything in your hand must use a tool to prevent the same incident from happening again. no matter the cause or cure.
 
PD Power said:
I eagerly await some empirical evidence that tapered bearings lower lap times when used on karts.
Click to expand...
Now your trying to change the subject.

Your original statement was that they were unsafe on the front steering wheels on a kart. Just because you have seen a failure due to a nut coming off is not proof of a bearing failure or the cause of an unsafe condition due to using a tappered roller bearing.

The biggest reason for manufacters to use sealed ball bearings on karts is cost, not safety, it costs a lot more to make the hub to accept seals,dust cap and races plus axels with shoulders and a groove for the keyed spacer. Not to mention cleaning and repacking quite often.
Also it takes very little skill to just adjust a nut and throw on a safety pin.
 
PD Power said:
What is the value of the tapered bearing? The drawback has been mentioned, is a facual event......and is not illusionary, as is the hoped for worth of the tapered set.

Give us a rational reason to use them.
Click to expand...

PD, We forum regulars (as you are) fully understand that whatever your opinion is will always be the correct one. The rest of us will always be wrong. All we have to do is ask you and you will undoubtedly remind us.

As far as a rational reason to use them, I feel there are no more reasons not to. I have had nearly 50 years of success using them when properly adjusted, lubed, and maintained. Simple as that. As for those who have had bad experiences with them, I cannot speak for their adjustments, lube, or maintenance. Basically, unless YOU have used them and found any reason they are unsafe, I am sure you would have already warned sanctioning organizations of their extreme danger and they would have already been banned, correct? Have you? If not, maybe you should. Your response from them is something we all would like you to share with us. Somehow, I don't see it happening.

As far as myself, experience is my preferred instructor. Thus, I shall continue to use them regardless of how globally catastrophic they may be misinterpreted as being. JMHO -Alan-
 
Could be the logic is sealed bearings are much easier to change, cheaper to replace, no maintenence, do just as well for the purpose used. Tapers on the other hand require some effort to maintain/change with the seperate race involved, re packing after cleaning to inspect for wear/pits, but if pitted its not hard to tell by rolling the wheel on its spindle, same goes for sealed bearings. Can't see any reason there is a saftey factor involved for race organizations to require sealed either other than maybe they figure the tapers have to run seals to keep any bearing grease from getting out? Also the time spent cleaning/inspecting re-packing tapers could be used on another part of readying a race machine/kart. And let us not forget we live in a throw away world.
 
Well Allan, your sarcasm changes nothing.
Take your reasoning to Victor Peters, if you know who he is.

Impirical proof that they lower lap times.......still MIA.

Oh, and I'm just calling out a warning. I don't really care what you do, or did, or will do.
 
PD - your lack of proof other than vague muttering about an incident doesn't change anything either.... Posting the mode of failure would. Anything that causes the removal of a wheel on a racecar while at speed results in bad things....but I'm not convinced the bearing style is to blame unless the rollers welded together, broke the cage, and went flying out, causing the wheel to separate and fall of.... So, what really happened?
 
PD Power said:
What is the value of the tapered bearing?
Click to expand...
Tremendous load capacity in both radial and side loading directions. My old Chevy 1/2 ton truck had Timken bearings on the front wheels, the outer bearing was only 3/4" ID. Not very big for the size and weight of the vehicle but at 150K miles they were still going strong. The downside is you have to have separate seals so they aren't as simple as sealed or shielded ball bearings. Karts in no way even begin to approach the loads that would require tapered bearings, the tires give up long before the capacity of the bearing becomes an issue.
 
PD Power said:
Well Allan, your sarcasm changes nothing.
Take your reasoning to Victor Peters, if you know who he is.

Impirical proof that they lower lap times.......still MIA.

Oh, and I'm just calling out a warning. I don't really care what you do, or did, or will do.
Click to expand...

Sorry Paul if I offend the overly-sensitive. But you've STILL dodged any evidence of your personal experiences with tapered bearings vs. rollers on karts simply to jump on a bandwagon resulting from one incident in which you still fail to bring to light. Was it really the bearing or was it a result of something else and the tapered bearing is simply a finger-pointer's way to legitimize something that is truly an unknown.

Oh, and your "calling out a warning".....LOL! I'm shaking in my boots!!!!!

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top