Track Tac

Tech performed out in the open vs tech room.

I can tell you so many stories over my 40 years of teching that you would say ( no way). I have encountered people watching tech that has no clue as to what is going on and then run off and make false accusations to others about what they “thought” they saw. I had a woman watch me tech a fuel on the winner of the predator class last year. Her son was second. She was so mad that I didn’t call the fuel because it was right on the last digit allowed. She heard me tell him it was borderline. She ran from the trailer and shouted to her husband that I left illegal fuel go. I can go on and on with examples over the years. I allow people to watch my tech but no one see’s any numbers if I can help it. If it’s a complete tear down one rep to the engine and me unless I am training another tech. BAck in the flathead days I was teching a jet for the edge being present on the back side. I did not know that the third-place competitor was standing at the end of my trailer. When I pulled the jet out and took my fingernail to see if the edge all the way around the jet I noticed that the one area of the jet was shaved down really really close to where hardly any of my finger nail caught it but there was enough of an edge there that I could not make the call that it was illegal. In my conversation of explaining the situation to the owner of the engine the guy at the end of the trailer left the building immediately and ran out and told everybody in the outfield outside the trailer that I just left an illegal jet go on that engine. Of coarse I was talked about for the next couple of races being a cheater. Those are the reasons that a tech man doesn’t want unnecessary people in the room while he’s trying to do his job.
 
I'm not an engine guy so I'm trying to understand how much of an advantage a slightly twisted butterfly in the carb, an extra tenth of a pound on a valve spring, or .002" of lift is. In other words, do illegal engines typically gain that much of an advantage that it impacted the outcome of the race? By no means am I suggesting that tech isn't necessary. I'm just curious if I'm just as competitive with my legal engine vs a racer that that may be right at or slightly over the limits. After all, isn't it a tire game?
 
Re read post #22.
What amount of not within the rules would be acceptable?
Builders push the limits the more you allow the more they push .
One discrepancy may not matter 4 discrepancies might , the outcome can be impacted by an illegal engine .
A good quality legal engine should not be a disadvantage .
 
I am and have been a vehicle inspection mechanic in pa ....been doing it for almost 30 years ....I dont care if customer watches or on the rare occasion the inspection cop comes to check books and watches me ...I have been told that things are legal when there not I have been asked to let something slide and the customer will fix later and the answer is no ....I wouldn't care if the owner of vehicle was there with 4 of his buddies and all said it was legal I open book and show them its illegal...I expect the same from a tech man legal is legal ....illegal is illegal....this notion that someone might see a speed secret inside a motor doesn't make any sense all good engine builders are doing about the same thing and any advantage wont be seen with the naked eye and who cares if someone is saying that something is legal or illegal get the book out and prove it one way or the other it's that simple
 
bricklayer653 said:
I am and have been a vehicle inspection mechanic in pa ....been doing it for almost 30 years ....I dont care if customer watches or on the rare occasion the inspection cop comes to check books and watches me ...I have been told that things are legal when there not I have been asked to let something slide and the customer will fix later and the answer is no ....I wouldn't care if the owner of vehicle was there with 4 of his buddies and all said it was legal I open book and show them its illegal...I expect the same from a tech man legal is legal ....illegal is illegal....this notion that someone might see a speed secret inside a motor doesn't make any sense all good engine builders are doing about the same thing and any advantage wont be seen with the naked eye and who cares if someone is saying that something is legal or illegal get the book out and prove it one way or the other it's that simple
Click to expand...
Let's place this on your turf...to say no one has ever "cheated" on a vehicle inspection with a vehicle that is deemed "not road worthy" would be a false statement. There are work arounds and people come up with innovative ways to make them pass. Now, if it was a pass/fail COMPETITION do you think those people would tell their competitors how they did it? Not at all. Same with tech. To say builders all are the same and not finding innovative ways to be faster is also false. If a builder is legal and has found an innovative way to be better...then that is their discovery to use until it's common knowledge or deemed illegal.
 
bricklayer653 said:
I am and have been a vehicle inspection mechanic in pa ....been doing it for almost 30 years ....I dont care if customer watches or on the rare occasion the inspection cop comes to check books and watches me ...I have been told that things are legal when there not I have been asked to let something slide and the customer will fix later and the answer is no ....I wouldn't care if the owner of vehicle was there with 4 of his buddies and all said it was legal I open book and show them its illegal...I expect the same from a tech man legal is legal ....illegal is illegal....this notion that someone might see a speed secret inside a motor doesn't make any sense all good engine builders are doing about the same thing and any advantage wont be seen with the naked eye and who cares if someone is saying that something is legal or illegal get the book out and prove it one way or the other it's that simple
Click to expand...
The difference between vehicle inspection and tecnical inspection is huge.
Stick a probe in the pipe , check the lights , no broke glass and a couple other things .
Technical inspection is not a visual inspection .
Why if all builders are doing the same thing are different engines, different?

The misinterpretation of what is said is what causes problems , and ego's .
 
flattop1 said:
The difference between vehicle inspection and tecnical inspection is huge.
Stick a probe in the pipe , check the lights , no broke glass and a couple other things .
Technical inspection is not a visual inspection .
Why if all builders are doing the same thing are different engines, different?

The misinterpretation of what is said is what causes problems , and ego's .
Click to expand...
You missed the point ...point is legal is legal ...also there is a book of rules to go by in both ...and you also missed that you wont see the speed secrets inside a motor WITH THE NAKED EYE ...maybe with a scale ..a micrometer...no go gage etc.
 
I will also ad I have never protested anyone nor did or do I feel like I have ever been beat by someone that is cheating so special thanks has to go out to the tech guys who do keep a level playing field
 
To me, engines should be tech'd inside a tech barn. Less dirt and moisture blowing around to contaminate the parts.

Also less opportunity for a crowd to watch. Not that I'd expect any of then to get a good enough look to be able to really learn anything, but because we don't need them making comments and trying to sway the results. That and claiming they "saw" or "heard" something they didn't actually see or hear.

To me, the only people who need to be present is the tech crew. If the tech man doesn't have a helper, then he might allow the engine's owner to help him. I don't care that somebody paid for the protest - they paid to hear the results, which they will get when the tech is done. They didn't pay for an engine building lesson. If you want an engine building lesson, buy a fresh engine from that builder and then tear it down and learn for yourself.

I like to trust the tech man, otherwise what's the point? If I can't trust him I shouldn't be racing there, or at least not participating in that track's protest procedure. And yes, I've seen untrustworthy tech men. Had one test fuel by following WKA procedures - including a clean graduated beaker - for the race winner, while using a used water bottle (even still said "Dasani" on it) and that you could see still had water droplets in it for the second and third place karts "to save time"... and (surprise!) find the winner's fuel legal while finding second and third place's fuel illegal due to water content... (surprise!) the winner was a good buddy of the track owner, who hadn't collected enough money to meet the advertised payout... yeah that was the last time we ever raced there, and the track has now closed.

I'm also not a fan of the rule that if you're protested that you have to pay an "acceptance fee". After paying entry fees and buying the required fuel at the track and some dinner I usually don't have enough cash to cover that "acceptance fee". I've had better financed teams take advantage of that (protesting me knowing that I cannot pay to accept, so they get my payout and points). If I do have the cash and accept the protest I end up with a box of dirtied parts and torn up gaskets etc. that my winnings are not going to pay for. Been told that this "acceptance fee" cuts down on vindictive protests, but as the victim of the protest I don't see how I was "vindictive". But if that's the track rules and how it wants to run, fine... I won't run for points there (meaning don't expect me to be a regular).
 
We run at several and are always a front runner so in turn are labeled cheaters and the tech man has tech’ed us so much he knows us by heart we don’t run illegal nor desire to but I don’t like everyone seeing what is in my engine !!!!!
 
I'm not a tech man. I have been protested several times and was not allowed in the tech barn or area. I have also protested a few times and again was not allowed inside.
I dont have a problem with that, with a non bias tech man. I feel a tech man should not tech their own motors, if they're engine builders.
I've seen more trouble start when the track has a motor checked. I've seen a tech man take a carb off a predator to check something, have it in his hand walk around the corner of the building come back and said it legal.
I have seen the same tech man go the extra mile if he seen certain stickers on the engine. He goes out of his way to find something wrong. He done this to me several times on a flathead. I changed to a plain cover and we didn't go past the carb.
So I dont race where he's at, because I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that he plays favorites.
Thats a big problem at some tracks.
 
who cares if someone is saying that something is legal or illegal get the book out and prove it one way or the other it's that simple
Click to expand...
In the 90s I did some WB 3 carbs. At a IKF race, (we won) the tech guy was checking the carburetor. He seemed intensely interested in one of the Holes, and as I watched, he kept trying to get that pin gauge in this one hole (it was close, but legal). After a few minutes I walked over, interrupting him, and asked "is it legal or not"? "It's really close" he said. "That's not my question"! I replied. He passed the carb.
 
There should never be a time when an engine builder techs his own engines in my opinion. That should get addressed immediately by your track.
Now, IF there's a situation where he has to tech his own engine(s,) (it has come up and obviously will again, other tech man gets sicks, quits, etc,) then each part and measurement should be thoroughly inspected and explained per the rules why it is legal/illegal to the competitor with a representative of their team in the tech barn at all times. That pretty much handles any skepticism/favoritism/other-isms that create a dark cloud of doubt over the tech barn.
You need to be able to TRUST your tech man.
 
Teching out in the open is the biggest mistake you could make. You will have 100 people critiquing, criticizing, complaining and offering opinions. No matter how fair, honest and thorough, you will be bashed for how you didn't do this or that right. How it should have been done, what you should not have done. You will be arm chair quarterbacked to death by self appointed experts who don't know the difference between a screwdriver and a wrench.
 
Don every where we race the tech man techs his own engine with no one allowed in the tech trailer but when it comes to our motors he lets everyone see but I’ll video it next time so I will have proof and not just my word against his !!
 
We spend countless hrs on the dyno and flow bench to get what we have and to have them show it heck he even measures it and shows them I told him next time I’ll knock his cloths out of style and I mean what I say or I never say it !!!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top