Box Stock

Tillotson confusion

S

scorpaguy

Member
Sorry all...I have tried researching the threads, but such seems to yield conflicting answers. SOOOOO....are Tillotson 196's a legal NKA clone engine?

...or is their legality track specific?
 
The 196r engine is legal to run under NKA and AKRA. The newest of the Tillotson blocks ( I don’t know the number ) is not legal in stock class AKRA rules. It is legal in stock appearing and up. Now, NKA rules adopted the new block for compition when it first came out two or three years ago. However, racers were complaining that the block was superior to the other blocks on the market so several tracks said no to the block. Check with the track you are going to run
 
scorpaguy said:
Thanks...I did and received quite an informative lecture on why the answer is "depends". The rules in this area need improvement to be conducive to newbies. Nice folks at EC though.
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I only said he could give you the correct answer. Sometimes the answer is ( sometimes it is this way and at other times it is that way.) And sometimes it really is up to each track!!!!!!! And Dyno Don will appreciate this one. Sometimes it is up to" Little Johnnie's Dad"
 
AKRA wouldn’t be misunderstood about the rules if the book was purchased. The only tillotson block permitted for stock is the 196r. Other tillotson blocks are legal in everything above stock
 
Forgive me but I didn’t see anything in that link that said 196r. This is what I did see that is the reason it isn’t excepted. (This 68mm block has a cast iron sleeve with reinforcements made throughout the block,). That is the reason the block not permitted in AKRA. In the beginning NKA did allow it but tracks then disallowed it because of the added reinforcement in the block. Many karter complained that it would monopolize the industry. So. The first 196r block they came out with was approved by AKRA and still is allowed today. The new reinforced block they came out with is not ok for AKRA. I can’t be more clear than that
 
DynoDon said:
AKRA wouldn’t be misunderstood about the rules if the book was purchased. The only tillotson block permitted for stock is the 196r. Other tillotson blocks are legal in everything above stock
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you mention the 196r right here saying its permitted for stock
 
I could be wrong and have been before. However, I wasn’t able to find anything in that link that identifies the reinforced block as a 196r. So let’s leave it at this. I explained the NKA portion of the question in one of my above posts. Simple. Check with the track. As for AKRA, the first block by Tillotson was a 196r. That block is legal AKRA. The newest block with reinforcements has not been AKRA approved. I can’t see Tillotson making 2 different blocks and identifying them with the same 196r code. Again, I could be wrong.
 
Guess I'll chime in since someone resurrected this thread.

The first block Tillotson used for the 196R is the standard clone block identical to other importers, Part number 138190001. The second generation was a block we designed first for the Tillotson 225RS (#138220002) engine and changed the bore sizes for the 196R (#138190086) & 212R(#138210126) Models. 196R is the complete engine identifier just like Nissan RB26 engines that have used 05U, 24U & RRR for different generation blocks are still all RB26.

AKRA made their point clear the second generation blocks are not legal, NKA lost interest in the 196 rules once they realize no one wanted their 196RS, a seal version of the 196R.

But none of this matters, I'm sure we're the only importer that brought in the 68mm version and once they're gone they won't be back. No more confusion when they're no longer available.
 
DynoDon said:
Forgive me but I didn’t see anything in that link that said 196r. This is what I did see that is the reason it isn’t excepted. (This 68mm block has a cast iron sleeve with reinforcements made throughout the block,). That is the reason the block not permitted in AKRA. In the beginning NKA did allow it but tracks then disallowed it because of the added reinforcement in the block. Many karter complained that it would monopolize the industry. So. The first 196r block they came out with was approved by AKRA and still is allowed today. The new reinforced block they came out with is not ok for AKRA. I can’t be more clear than that
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DynoDon said:
I could be wrong and have been before. However, I wasn’t able to find anything in that link that identifies the reinforced block as a 196r. So let’s leave it at this. I explained the NKA portion of the question in one of my above posts. Simple. Check with the track. As for AKRA, the first block by Tillotson was a 196r. That block is legal AKRA. The newest block with reinforcements has not been AKRA approved. I can’t see Tillotson making 2 different blocks and identifying them with the same 196r code. Again, I could be wrong.
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I bought 10 complete 196r engines because they were supposed to be legal. All of them are built with the better block:mad:. Quotes like this from you and others only confuse the situation. (" The only tillotson block permitted for stock is the 196r. Other tillotson blocks are legal in everything above stock"). I bought 196r engines. I asked the AKRA directly about it a while back. I was told that the blocks that come with the complete 196r engine were legal for use but the "big bore Tillotson blocks" were not legal. The actual term used and what was said to me was " big bore blocks" I didn't buy "big bore" blocks, I bought standard bore blocks. I laughed out loud when i read this from you.."Many karter complained that it would monopolize the industry." Was your intent to actually say " There are two major importers/vendors of clone engines that didn't want the Tillotson blocks eating up their market share"? Who out there was really worried that the Tillotson block would monopolize the industry? I doubt it was the average Joe go kart racer. If the rules makers were actually worried about a monopoly, then why are camshafts from Dyno Cams still legal? I am not suggesting Dyno Cams camshafts be made illegal because that would be stupid. But Dyno does hold a significant fraction of the camshaft market in this industry. The really sad part about this is that the Tillotson block in all likelihood would benefit the average Saturday night racer in the long run. Things like a thicker sleeve, stiffer casting, extra thread engagement for the head bolt next to the exhaust port, side cover bolts that stay tight longer, somewhat better cooling, less piston and bore scuffing, and quite possibly better head gasket retention and longer engine life would all benefit the average racer. This is not and never was about helping the small guy. It is about protecting the interests of the upper one percent, but I have to admit that allowing the block would also be a really bad move if it where to push the largest players like Dyno and Box Stock Project out of the game.
 
Your comment about what you think I may have meant is exactly why I quit answering questions on here for the general public. You made an accusation about me that was false. I no longer will share my knowledge on here once again. Those who want to trust me with help may call me or text me.
 
DynoDon said:
Your comment about what you think I may have meant is exactly why I quit answering questions on here for the general public. You made an accusation about me that was false. I no longer will share my knowledge on here once again. Those who want to trust me with help may call me or text me.
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I accused you of nothing. I never stated what I think you meant. I am not the one making false accusations. I simply asked the question "Was your intent to actually say " There are two major importers/vendors of clone engines that didn't want the Tillotson blocks eating up their market". I take it your answer to my question is no, but i don't want to make any assumptions about you. But i will stick by my opinion that the real reason the block is illegal is not because " Many karter complained that it would monopolize the industry". You may have only been repeating what you were told and just passing that info along to others, but, I just have a hard time believing that it was "karters" complaining about a monopoly when there are way more likely sources for such a complaint. But I admit that making the blocks ineligible because of concerns about monopoly are a valid reason, I suppose.
 
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