Whats up with all these tracks and series in south and southeast banning Venom Juice's Armor Wall technology? Have seen alot of drama on facebook lately from Kevin because his product is being banned everywhere it seems like. Just curious what exactly started all of this? It seems like a great idea for new and old tires both, do tire companies really just want racers having to buy new tires all the time or is Kevin wrong? They sure seem to be against this product for whatever reason....
Tire battle
- Thread starter W5R
- Start date
SoCo Tire Treatments
Moderator
Should really get facts straight before you post things like this.
First sentence is partially correct, lots of series are banning it. However...tire companies have nothing to do with it. Kevin went to Maxxis long before he came out to the public. Havent heard Burris say anything about this, as well as Vega, etc.
jsstump#70
Member
I would take all the "banning" and "drama" as a huge gift and use it as marketing. "My product is so superior and gives such a tremendous advantage its been banned all across the nation!" As soon as the general karter is convinced that it IS an advantage, nothing will keep him from using it, not even a ban. Just dump it in an empty can of some other prep and use it as you want. Everyone will wonder how he got so fast using that old stuff!!! (whatever the old can says). When you get lemons, make lemonade!!!! Seen this with a gas "additive" in the 80s. Everyone HAD to have it because it was "banned". People paid huge money to get it. Everyone was convinced it was the new hot secret and anyone winning had it. Turned out to be a concoction of mineral spirits, turpentine and some other paint thinner or something. Nothing special at all.
Is it "banned" because its perceived dangerous? Or what?
Is it "banned" because its perceived dangerous? Or what?
The product isn’t a wipe on prep it is an added material to stiffen the sidewall. It can be checked by Series and tracks it’s been banned at by simply dismounting the tire and looking. I don’t know a lot about armor wall but that is my general understanding of what it is. I’m sure someone who knows more will chime in.
I never stated tire companies were the ones doing it, not sure where you got that Earl....i ASKED if it was tire companies or if Kevin was wrong. Either way, Its getting old seeing posts everyday from someone like Kevin Bishop whining about these places banning his product. If he hadnt marketed the product and kept it to himself, that situation likely would have never came to light honestly, and wouldnt be getting banned at all. They didnt start doing anything about it until he started offering the service....he said on facebook he has been doing it for a year or more now. There was a post where a Burris sanctioned series banned it as well, maybe you just havent seen it yet. Not sure about Vega though. But my facts were strait before i made the post....If thats your opinion i can respect that, but i asked because i was curious exactly what caused tracks to start banning this product if it wasnt tire companies as you said. Have asked Kevin and he apparently doesnt want to go into details about it other than his product shouldnt be banned.....
You are correct, it is just some type of material added to the sidewall of the inside of the tire, held in place with some type of epoxy or adhesive. Looks to be carbon fiber type material but im sure that isnt what it is. I asked because Kevin sure is making a big deal out of it on facebook lately, i see his posts everyday. But when you ask about it, he wont give any details other than it shouldnt be banned. I get that he doesnt want his secret out or whatever but he could have simply messaged me and explained it a little like most tire guys would for a product of theirs. Doesnt seem to matter much since everywhere seems to be banning it anyways. Im thinking it could be a good thing for racers who cant afford new tires alot, if it does what he says it will do, that could allow people to get more life out of used up tires like Burris 33's where the sidewalls wear out quickly and tires lose speed. He said it was designed so that they could take new tires and use them right then instead of scuffing and waiting for them to cure, which does make perfect sense to me for that also, it seems like a great idea so if its not tire companies who are against it, then what is the reason for banning this product? Something doesnt add up here
DynoDon
Moderator
I heard it was a fiberglass resin mixture. I saw one that was done. Hard to make it stick to rubber. The one I saw already had chunks beginning to peel off. It hurts the series that has a tire rule. No need to allow it. Where is the testing results? How long does it last before it breaks away and causes a vibration?.
racing promotor
Moderator
OK I'm going to stir the pot hard here I know but don't really care, plus I'm a big boy and can handle the responses I get.
I hope EVERY track & series all across this country outlaws it, especially all the local Fri and Sat night tracks that are stuggling to survive as it is and here's WHY, Racers are monkey see monkey do and there own worst enemies convincing themselves they need whatever to compete long before they have enough experience to go fast anyway, Total kart counts are down everywhere except a few of the big series and what it cost to race is a big part of that and something like this will only make it worse, it's gotta STOP somewhere. Because at some point there just going to WALK AWAY.
Personally I think it's just a gimmick to take racers money anyway and would not spend 2 cents on it yet alone what it cost, Advice for the average racer Don't fall for this crap and waste any more money, yes you need proper tires and as much as I hate it prep and that cost is bad enough, even If it does help it's so minimal your not going to outrun the cream of the crop just because of it.
I know 2 series here already prohibit it, If the other decides to allow it I hope there season is a bust, I know just about EVERY Pa track owner and will be pushing hard for all of them to outlaw it.
No one has more admiration and cares more for this sport than I do and the worse thing going on right now in this sport is MONEY HUNGRY people
especially certain Promoters. And Tire company's that crawl in bed with them offering up way to much are just as guilty.
I hope EVERY track & series all across this country outlaws it, especially all the local Fri and Sat night tracks that are stuggling to survive as it is and here's WHY, Racers are monkey see monkey do and there own worst enemies convincing themselves they need whatever to compete long before they have enough experience to go fast anyway, Total kart counts are down everywhere except a few of the big series and what it cost to race is a big part of that and something like this will only make it worse, it's gotta STOP somewhere. Because at some point there just going to WALK AWAY.
Personally I think it's just a gimmick to take racers money anyway and would not spend 2 cents on it yet alone what it cost, Advice for the average racer Don't fall for this crap and waste any more money, yes you need proper tires and as much as I hate it prep and that cost is bad enough, even If it does help it's so minimal your not going to outrun the cream of the crop just because of it.
I know 2 series here already prohibit it, If the other decides to allow it I hope there season is a bust, I know just about EVERY Pa track owner and will be pushing hard for all of them to outlaw it.
No one has more admiration and cares more for this sport than I do and the worse thing going on right now in this sport is MONEY HUNGRY people
especially certain Promoters. And Tire company's that crawl in bed with them offering up way to much are just as guilty.
racing promotor
Moderator
Good because your the first guy I was gonna call, start unbeading tires everywhere and put a stop to it here before it starts, even IF there not using any material and only resin of some sort don't fall for well it's only chemical, simply take a measurement inside of an unbeaded tire and allow a tight tolerance only at 3 places and if it's out boom toss it. I'll be in touch soon.
Agree with your entire post !
TheLurker!
Member
I’m new to the sport this year with a 5 and 8 year old. I agree completely. Not because we are getting beat but because as a dad when you are getting nagged at by your kids that everyone is faster you make adjustments. When adjustments don’t work you spend money! After initial cost of a two kart outfit and now you have to invest in multiple chemicals just to keep up let alone win it becomes dejecting. Not to me... like you said I can take it and kids have to learn to lose as well but when the get dejected they lose interest and the future is gone. The sport needs to remember not all of us were born to kart families and don’t know all the secrets! It’s hard to get into this sport therefore kart counts are down and it starts with the little ones. How many red plates are at your local track??? I’m going to guess not many. We will take our lumps and learn but a lot of people would love to do this but just can’t afford because of how complicated and expensive it has become. Sounds like another series I know... N@$C@R!
racing promotor
Moderator
Your a perfect example of WHY I love this site you can get FREE good info here without even thinking to hard on whom to listen to and whom not to, I'm safe to say I've scaled 100+ karts for people especially kids and have NEVER charged a penny, that's what we need more of to grow this sport, and a lot of guy's do just not near enough, for the ones that do THANK YOU !
717-712-3437 call or text anytime if you looking for some advise if I can help I'll tell ya, If I can't I'll tell ya BUT I'll contact someone who can.
Good Luck !!
Absolutely a great post ! I know exactly where you are coming from because i have been there twice in karting , with myself and with my son when he decided to give it a go ! Who knows , maybe my 10 yr old may get a chance soon if the right situation presents itself ! Good luck to you and i hope things work out for you !!!!!
TheLurker!
Member
Thanks I will keep in touch... this is sportsmanship for those that don’t know. I let my kids pick their favorite drivers at our track. You know how they do it... by which one interacts with them. From there they give him/her high fives and thumbs up all the time. That is what’s this sport is about. Helping each other to get faster allows you to face the best possible driving competition. Keeping secrets allows you to suppress better drives and the sport of being a RACER and not a chassis/tires.
TheLurker!
Member
You know why the adult count is up... because they have jobs! They don’t mind blowing money to enjoy themselves. And then they are hooked and continue to spend money on themselves. Think about a kid they don’t know money... all they know is racing and competition. They enjoy going out and thinking they have a shot... when that confidence goes away because of someone with more money they are done with racing. I don’t believe in participation trophies that’s bull. But I do believe in a set of rules that allow a drivers ability to decide a race.
SoCo Tire Treatments
Moderator
SoCo Tire Treatments
Moderator
DynoDon
Moderator
The tire problem in kartng is a big issue as it is. Now we have someone who wants to add to the cost of the tires to the karter. It is difficult now for people getting started in the sport to learn the tire trade let alone having to keep up with the Joneses who have the money to buy this product that is being sold. The karter getting in the sport is capable of learning what prep to use and how to read the track for that night. Now if he wants to be competitive he's going to have to send his tires away or buy a new set of tires that are done with this prep. That becomes expensive.
Fast Forward Karting
Member
Ok so I sell Maxxis for 420.00 a set on black wheels. So by what you’re saying as long as I don’t charge more than normal you say armor Wall is ok?
No one has the right to tell someone what their product is worth, and no one has to buy that product. I guess next we won’t allow black wheels, cause that’s an upgraded cost, no carbon fiber helmets cause such and such has one but joe blow can’t afford one and that’s not fair....
All this sounds so stupid. If you choose to spend the money then so be it. If you choose to not spend the mo way then so be it. It’s not up to the powers to be to decide where we spend our hard earned money.
No one has the right to tell someone what their product is worth, and no one has to buy that product. I guess next we won’t allow black wheels, cause that’s an upgraded cost, no carbon fiber helmets cause such and such has one but joe blow can’t afford one and that’s not fair....
All this sounds so stupid. If you choose to spend the money then so be it. If you choose to not spend the mo way then so be it. It’s not up to the powers to be to decide where we spend our hard earned money.
