Track Tac

Tire Bite?

"J'-remy

"J'-remy

Member
What is tire bite and how does a prep give you 'bite' without dropping the duro of the tire. or build a longer lasting 'bite' I can understand a prep making a tire soft or replenishing the tires oils etc. if its not changing the duro of the tire what is it changing?
 
i would think bite being harder tracks to keep it simple, if your on a track where you need a 45cc tire punching 54 that's just a reference. its varies a little per kart, driver, etc. bite is wiping acrysol 5 min before qualifying and hitting track. its "topical", also hard to explain unless your hands are on a tire.
 
a million preps outside of 'acrysol' that claim "builds bite without dropping duro" and "the more wipes the more Bite" or "gives a long lasting bite. what exactly is the feeling of the tire im looking for? a rough surface? Does it feel like the adhesive side of a sticker? and how does it help/hurt the tire? For example the track calls for a 65 duro tire. a 45 duro tire will be too slow but will a 65 duro tire with a lot of "Bite" slow me down? Using Prep in the late 90s was about getting your tires to grip in the first couple of laps before the tires came up to temperature. I understand prepping the tire to help keep it fresh and to keep it from hardening up with age/heat cycles. or to make the tire softer. what is Bite?
give me a definition please
 
As far as Acrysol in my experience. When used by itself it seems to pull any prep that’s in the pores up! Maybe giving it a top layer of bite. Acrysol mixed with a prep can get the prep deeper into the tire. I’m not shure how many people use it but for my program I use Acrysol often! It seems to work for me that’s why I have stuck with it. Your gonna get several different answers about this and I’m following this thread to see what people have to say !
 
Bite in the tire to me is how hard it is to pull your hand across the tire with minimal downward pressure.

Duro is how soft it is when you dig your fingernail in.
 
racinnut15xm said:
Bite in the tire to me is how hard it is to pull your hand across the tire with minimal downward pressure.

Duro is how soft it is when you dig your fingernail in.
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OK i can say the same thing about a clean tire that has just been resurfaced vs a dusty tire that is glazed over no prep involved. is there such a thing as too much bite vs too soft a tire. when would i pick a hard tire with a lot of Bite vs a tire that has been prepped soft? a softer compound tire would stick to the track more than a hard one. or is the trick to the tires to have the hardest duro with the most bite?
 
J'-remy said:
OK i can say the same thing about a clean tire that has just been resurfaced vs a dusty tire that is glazed over no prep involved. is there such a thing as too much bite vs too soft a tire. when would i pick a hard tire with a lot of Bite vs a tire that has been prepped soft? a softer compound tire would stick to the track more than a hard one. or is the trick to the tires to have the hardest duro with the most bite?
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the "trick to tires" is track specific, if you run a wet sandy track down in florida where you need a duro of 40 and a mild to agressive prep, and you go on the track with tires punching 52 and a ton of bite your going to be lucky getting around the track. but on the other hand if your in the carolinas on some hard clay where you need a tire punching 52 and you go out with tires punching 40 your for one will know after a lap around the track your slow, and when you go to wash your tires the inside edge will be gone.
 
GeneticTireWorks said:
the "trick to tires" is track specific, if you run a wet sandy track down in florida where you need a duro of 40 and a mild to agressive prep, and you go on the track with tires punching 52 and a ton of bite your going to be lucky getting around the track. but on the other hand if your in the carolinas on some hard clay where you need a tire punching 52 and you go out with tires punching 40 your for one will know after a lap around the track your slow, and when you go to wash your tires the inside edge will be gone.
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is adding a ton of Bite to a 52 duro tire desirable at the Carolina track or can you add too much bite in the tire and make it slow?
 
J'-remy said:
is adding a ton of Bite to a 52 duro tire desirable at the Carolina track or can you add too much bite in the tire and make it slow?
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To much bite in my opinion will lock you down making you slow . Of course there are tracks that require a tire with more bite .
 
J'-remy said:
What is tire bite and how does a prep give you 'bite' without dropping the duro of the tire. or build a longer lasting 'bite' I can understand a prep making a tire soft or replenishing the tires oils etc. if its not changing the duro of the tire what is it changing?
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Its the chemicals used in the prep that changes the molecular make up of the tire which creates the bite with little to no softening.
More wipes gets deeper into the tire with these changes, which equates to "longer lasting bite". Its all track relevant on the number of wipes needed, too many wipes or not enough wipes can both hurt you.
 
^ Agree, and although a lot of the chemicals that make up current preps are the same (or at least very similar,) the concentration of that chemical makes a big difference of the amount of bite it can create.
One reason to cut a prep with acrysol or naptha, is to reduce that concentration (or water it down so to speak.)

Our Black Bite 2.0 builds bite without softening. More wipes = more bite.
This is best applied during the week preceding a race to build layers of bite in the tires. It can then be used trackside to maintain (or add) bite.

Our Monster Bite builds a ton of bite but softens 2-3 points per wipe.
It works well during the week to get the tire down to the desired duro, then used only as a PRW a the track.

FWIW, both of these preps have one of the same bite chemicals in them.

OP mentioned a "sticky" feel to the tire. On a soft/moist track, that can be a good thing (Our soft Vegas will stick to the wall fo your trailer,) but on a dry slick dusty track, sticky tires are seldom the right way to go as they'll pick up all that dust.

I don't think of "Bite" as sticky -- more the amount of available grip the tire yields.
I suppose you could be real scientific and measure the resistance of the tire sliding on a smooth surface -- ie hold the brakes and slide the rear of the kart along your garage floor.

As said previously...too much grip is not a good thing either.
Consider that we are running very limited HP engines and too much bite in the tires will flat lock a kart down and reduce engine rpms.

Hope that explanation helps. :)


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🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
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www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
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Brian and earl have probably forgotten more about tires and prep then I know, lol, but I think both would agree its something you have to learn at the track. reading sometimes causes more confusion then explanation.
 
GeneticTireWorks said:
Brian and earl have probably forgotten more about tires and prep then I know, lol, but I think both would agree its something you have to learn at the track. reading sometimes causes more confusion then explanation.
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Yea, my explanation above is about as good as I can explain it....So much of working with tires is simply experience. LOTS and LOTS of it.
 
I have a question about weekly prepping.. I use a conditioner during the week, its what I'm told that I need. But what exactly is the conditioner doing for the tire? And is conditioner good for wet tracks or dry tracks, or both?
 
drttrck17 said:
I have a question about weekly prepping.. I use a conditioner during the week, its what I'm told that I need. But what exactly is the conditioner doing for the tire? And is conditioner good for wet tracks or dry tracks, or both?
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If you can be more specific on the product you are using, maybe someone (rep.) from that company could chime in and tell us better.
Most "conditioners" are used to keep a tire fresh, rejuvinate the rubber, etc. most do this by adding oil to the tire. Some soften, some do not. None are harsh that I have seen.
They can be used on both wet or dry tracks. Again, depends on the product if it's appropriate or not.
 
CarlsonMotorsports said:
If you can be more specific on the product you are using, maybe someone (rep.) from that company could chime in and tell us better.
Most "conditioners" are used to keep a tire fresh, rejuvinate the rubber, etc. most do this by adding oil to the tire. Some soften, some do not. None are harsh that I have seen.
They can be used on both wet or dry tracks. Again, depends on the product if it's appropriate or not.
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I been using Donnie nall's insanity prep.
He tells me to use his yellow crush during the week. It dont soften the tire at all. I was just curious on what the conditioner is really used for. I think if I could understand what the prep is doing with the tire once applied, I might be able to figure out what I need at the track and make better prepping choices..
 
drttrck17 said:
I been using Donnie nall's insanity prep.
He tells me to use his yellow crush during the week. It dont soften the tire at all. I was just curious on what the conditioner is really used for. I think if I could understand what the prep is doing with the tire once applied, I might be able to figure out what I need at the track and make better prepping choices..
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I use Nall’s yellow and it does soften the tire a few points but it’s good stuff. If you need to build bite without softening Donnie’s hard track is the go to.
 
drttrck17 said:
I been using Donnie nall's insanity prep.
He tells me to use his yellow crush during the week. It dont soften the tire at all. I was just curious on what the conditioner is really used for. I think if I could understand what the prep is doing with the tire once applied, I might be able to figure out what I need at the track and make better prepping choices..
Click to expand...
Lots of times a tire conditioner will keep the rubber flexible. This is needed for grip. A dry, stiff tire will not bend properly to the imperfections in the track
 
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