Track Tac

Tire Game are you sick of it ?

Don K said:
Prep has become a religion in karting. It has spread to micro 600's and car racing too. I felt a control of prep would be absolutely no prepping of any kind in the pits, no wrapped tires and an open tire rule. But only if you wanted some control of it. I think prep would be of less value if the tracks just junked up the racing surface some and got rid of beautifully groomed racing surface.

DK
Click to expand...
Then it would be mostly the very harsh and less safer preps being used. It would cut cost though as you wouldnt need as many tires, softer tires just last longer.
 
The one thing i noticed from reading these posts is no one talked about what racing is ,” competition.” This is just like going to the casino, can’t afford to lose it don’t go! You are there to win! You are competing! Just like any other sport. I have tires that are 5 yrs old. I do prep and finish on the podium! I have also seen people that don’t prep finish on podium! A good shoe is a good shoe, doesn’t matter if they spend 5,000.00 or 500.00 a year! This is the nature of this beast!
 
dirt guy said:
The one thing i noticed from reading these posts is no one talked about what racing is ,” competition.” This is just like going to the casino, can’t afford to lose it don’t go! You are there to win! You are competing! Just like any other sport. I have tires that are 5 yrs old. I do prep and finish on the podium! I have also seen people that don’t prep finish on podium! A good shoe is a good shoe, doesn’t matter if they spend 5,000.00 or 500.00 a year! This is the nature of this beast!
Click to expand...


From post #6:

Working tires all week to be competitive can be a real pain. I get that.
But don't think for a minute that if you changed the rules, that you'll all the sudden become competitive with the guys who are currently winning. They'll still be working on their karts all week long and still be the ones to beat at the track.

For some, racing is a competitive sport.
For others, it's simply a hobby.

Be content with whatever level you choose to participate in our sport.


I'll add this: If a guy has a budget of $20,000 for his hobby (karting in this instance) to be competitive, then he'll spend that much regardless of the rules that are in place. If you come up with a rule to limit him to 4 tires for the year, he'll still spend that usable income elsewhere on his karting program. He may buy a new chassis with ceramic bearings every 3 months or buy an advantage wherever else it can be had, simply because he has the means. Unlike stick and ball sports, money DOES make you faster (if you know how to use it.)
 
IMHO
Often times at the elite level in sprint racing and using sticky tires you are trying to take grip out rather than get more.
Therefore, using prep isn't desirable or necessary.
At the local level they often use a hard tire that lasts a complete season (for economical reasons)
Let me say that again: they often use a hard tire that lasts a complete season (for economical reasons)
At these tracks tires are usually checked with a durometer.
If for any reason your tires are softer than the spec you are DQ'd.
Let me also add that in my opinion racing on hard tires means that kart set up is even more critical. Most of all of all you need to be a good driver. Sticky tires can make someone relatively new look much better.
 
Last edited:
Ted Hamilton said:
If tracks would prep wet/loose instead of dry/slick, or dirtphalt, this would be better too.
Click to expand...
Exactly! As I have posted before in other threads my favorite track is a dirt track, NOT CLAY! Track is usually very wet. All that is needed tire wise is one good set of 11's. While this track likes new tires they aren't necessary. I am running the same set for the 3rd year in a row now. Consistently make the podium on these "old tires."
 
Jimbo said:
Get into Sprint racing.
I don't know of any sprint racing track that treating tires is allowed.
Click to expand...
Our sprint track is open tire. No prep. One set of tires can last the whole season.
 
Our local track is wet and not clay, stays soft all night and they usually water the heck out of it just before the heats to make sure it stays that way. We still HAVE to prep and prep aggressively to stay up front. This is only running Jr2. I know a buddy that runs the top classes and his prep and tire budget is insane! Its the nature of the sport, track surface won't change it. Any given weekend at this track you smell nothing but Goat and wintergreen and EVERYone is torching it in. Our Vega yellows are punching 30-35 and ours are harder than most... ;)
 
Jimbo said:
IMHO
Often times at the elite level in sprint racing and using sticky tires you are trying to take grip out rather than get more.
Therefore, using prep isn't desirable or necessary.
At the local level they often use a hard tire that lasts a complete season (for economical reasons)
Let me say that again: they often use a hard tire that lasts a complete season (for economical reasons)
At these tracks tires are usually checked with a durometer.
If for any reason your tires are softer than the spec you are DQ'd.
Let me also add that in my opinion racing on hard tires means that kart set up is even more critical. Most of all of all you need to be a good driver. Sticky tires can make someone relatively new look much better.
Click to expand...


Jimbo,
I don't know of too many people who are prepping to add grip on pavement. Most aren't even trying to soften their tires.
Generally prepping is done to add conditioning oils and/or to help control tire temperatures better for pavement racers.
One popular internal prep reduces the tire temps considerably - that can be a huge advantage when running YLC's or some of the more sticky club tires. Generally, a heat cycled / seasoned tire will be more consistent over a long run than a set of stickers as well...so determining if a set of tires has been cut and/or prepped just became that much more difficult.

Cutting and prepping IS going on at the highest level AND a the local level.
 
CarlsonMotorsports said:
Jimbo,
I don't know of too many people who are prepping to add grip on pavement. Most aren't even trying to soften their tires.
Generally prepping is done to add conditioning oils and/or to help control tire temperatures better for pavement racers.
One popular internal prep reduces the tire temps considerably - that can be a huge advantage when running YLC's or some of the more sticky club tires. Generally, a heat cycled / seasoned tire will be more consistent over a long run than a set of stickers as well...so determining if a set of tires has been cut and/or prepped just became that much more difficult.

Cutting and prepping IS going on at the highest level AND a the local level.
Click to expand...
Yes i agree :)
 
Maybe i'm not understanding the point you guys are trying to make but it sounds to me that you are promoting prepping tires (YLCs) used for sprint racing.
Please take notice of the last line below from the 2019 CKNA rule set.

Approved Tires Vega Tires
VAH Tires for Dry:
Kid Kart/Sportsman= 4.60” Front, 4.60” Rear
Junior/Senior=4.60” Front, 6.00” Rear
Vega w5 Tires for Rain:
Sportsman= 4.20” Front, 4.20” Rear
Junior/Senior=4.20” Front, 6.00” Rear
Absolutely no Tire prep allowed

Am i correct in assuming you are knowingly providing these products to sprint racing customers?
 
One reason I don't like the prep game is due to the "mystery" of it. People can be on the right tires, pressure, gearing, setup...but if they are on the wrong prep, they are out to lunch. I'm lucky that I've found a couple preps that work great at our local track, and get a few wins a year, but I can't imagine the frustration others must deal with chasing their tails with the wrong prep. I'd gladly give it up if there were a good way to monitor and police a prep ban. I'd rather be slipping around a bit and using more throttle control.
 
Forget banning prep, aint gonna happen at the local level. One big problem we have in southern dirt racing is we have too much tire for the power level we run. If we put the karts on smaller tires it will change the game. Max size of a 6.00 on the right with a 7 3/4" wheel. 4.50 on the left with a 6" wheel. Make people drive again not just slam it to the floor and hold on.
 
Jimbo said:
No thanks Brian
I'm not into cheating.
Would Jesus cheat?
Click to expand...

Then why do you sell domed pistons and stock appearing parts? ;)
It's not cheating if it's not in the rules and not enforced, correct?
I see this with Big 10 basketball players every year. Moving screens are "illegal" yet a big part of defence. If it is allowed by the officiating crew, then is it not to your advantage to play to that level of the officiating? Again, this is the reason we need REAL tech at the tracks, including at the local level, not just at big events.
Again, use the product how you want within your own level of conscience.
 
If we put the karts on smaller tires it will change the game. Max size of a 6.00 on the right with a 7 3/4" wheel. 4.50 on the left with a 6" wheel. Make people drive again not just slam it to the floor and hold on.

Boy do I agree with this. Like I said earlier junk up the tracks or like you say put smaller tires on and make racers drive. I like tracks with character. I see this with the grand kids motocross. They whine the track isn't groomed, the jumps aren't right and there are too many rocks......... Sally Boys.

Prep is here stay, shrinking the tires is an equalizer. Uh Oh, I can here the prepper's preaching the religion......prep is all there is, all the fast drivers prep. You must prep to win. Spend, spend and spend some more.

DK
 
Brian and everyone else.
Please understand that I sell Stock Appearing carbs for Stock appearing classes and state that they are illegal for stock classes on my website..
I also tell people that they are illegal for stock classes when they call to place an order!!!
When i tell them that they are illegal it very often ends the conversation. I am also not on here promoting their use for stock classes.
My domed pistons are for definitely not for use in a stock 206 motor and i have never promoted them as such!!
To my knowledge i have never sold one to someone that had the intent of using to cheat a LO 206!!!
The pistons are advertised with a complete kit including a bigger cam and no rev-limiting coil etc.
If someone ran such a motor in a stock class would be very obvious that it is no a legal LO 206
It would also have the seals cut off.
It also states on my website that the Super stock kit is not legal for stocki classes!!!
 
CarlsonMotorsports said:
It's not cheating if it's not in the rules and not enforced, correct?
Click to expand...

These seem like contradictory positions....just sayin'. :) The rules are the rules, whether they're actively or intermittently enforced. For those that show up expecting to play by the rules, it is damaging for cheating to occur, whether it's called out or not. It's damaging for the sport to have such a philosophy. Either people have a regard for the rules, or they're not playing the same game... Are people of low morals willing to do "whatever it takes" to win? Yes. Should it be encouraged? No. Really, I'm surprised that you even mention a prevailing philosophy of "it's their business what happens once its' sold...." Sure, it is. But if you're aware that people are cheating up stock classes, for the good of the sport I'd be making their local tracks and tech people aware of it... Or at last blasting it out on Bob's that it's likely so that the racers can seek confirmation and accountability... This is also why EVERY track should have a competent and well-trained tech-person with all the tools available to check at least the major performance gain areas... It's human-nature -- people will cheat to unfairly gain rewards, in the absence of fear of consequences.

To the original point of getting rid of prep.... Once we address the issues of why prep is happening, and solve that, it's not likely to go away, unless the karting participants see unequivocal proof that it isn't needed.... Or a parc ferme is instituted.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Brian
I hope you didn't use the domed pistons you bought from me to cheat a LO206.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top