Tire Game are you sick of it ?

I really appreciate that Jim sells performance Animal parts. When my kid is older it would be a cool and educational project to cut the seals on a worn out LO206 and hot rod it just for practicing and having fun. It seems a lot easier and cheaper than hot rodding a car.
 
These seem like contradictory positions....just sayin'. :) The rules are the rules, whether they're actively or intermittently enforced. For those that show up expecting to play by the rules, it is damaging for cheating to occur, whether it's called out or not. It's damaging for the sport to have such a philosophy. Either people have a regard for the rules, or they're not playing the same game... Are people of low morals willing to do "whatever it takes" to win? Yes. Should it be encouraged? No. Really, I'm surprised that you even mention a prevailing philosophy of "it's their business what happens once its' sold...." Sure, it is. But if you're aware that people are cheating up stock classes, for the good of the sport I'd be making their local tracks and tech people aware of it... Or at last blasting it out on Bob's that it's likely so that the racers can seek confirmation and accountability... This is also why EVERY track should have a competent and well-trained tech-person with all the tools available to check at least the major performance gain areas... It's human-nature -- people will cheat to unfairly gain rewards, in the absence of fear of consequences.

To the original point of getting rid of prep.... Once we address the issues of why prep is happening, and solve that, it's not likely to go away, unless the karting participants see unequivocal proof that it isn't needed.... Or a parc ferme is instituted.


My point, exactly. That's why I brought up cutting and prepping @ sprint tracks. It IS occurring at local events and at the national level. It is occurring because it is either not a rule, or the rule is not being enforced. If you're not going to enforce the rules, then why have them at all? All it does is keep the honest people honest, (and chasing those who skirt the non-enforced rules.)
 
Your point exactly???
I'm not buying that!!
For those that show up expecting to play by the rules, it is damaging for cheating to occur, whether it's called out or not.
It's damaging for the sport to have such a philosophy.
Either people have a regard for the rules, or they're not playing the same game...
Are people of low morals willing to do "whatever it takes" to win? Yes.
Should it be encouraged? No. Really,
I'm surprised that you even mention a prevailing philosophy of "it's their business what happens once its' sold..
 
Yes the no prep rule can be enforced and is at a local track near me.
They run burris tires. When they come off the track tires are removed and washed with water only at a wash station. The tires are marked for each competitor do they get thr same set back every time. They are issued while going to the grid.
At the end of the night the tires remain in custody of the track as the same process the following week.
They're doing 2 classes like this one kids and one adult.
So it can be done.
 
Your point exactly???
I'm not buying that!!
For those that show up expecting to play by the rules, it is damaging for cheating to occur, whether it's called out or not.
It's damaging for the sport to have such a philosophy.
Either people have a regard for the rules, or they're not playing the same game...
Are people of low morals willing to do "whatever it takes" to win? Yes.
Should it be encouraged? No. Really,
I'm surprised that you even mention a prevailing philosophy of "it's their business what happens once its' sold..

I'm not asking you to buy it, Jimbo. It is what it is.
Think of it this way...
If I were encouraging people to cheat, would I be on here talking about it or keeping these speed secrets to myself?
I think exposing this subject and discussing it is beneficial.

My point is that cutting and prepping is going on in the sprint side of karting. It is not immune to it happening. It may not be as prevalent as on the dirt oval side right now, but trust me, there are plenty of people doing it.
It's up to the tracks to step up and start policing it if they choose to do so.
 
If you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas, or in Latin, qui cum canibus concumbunt cum pulicibus surgent. "He that lieth down with dogs shall rise up with fleas" has been attributed to Benjamin Franklin's Poor Richard's Almanack.[1][2] The Latin has been unreliably attributed to Seneca[3][4], but not linked to any specific work.

The quote has a large almost universally agreed meaning of "You should be cautious of the company you keep. Associating with those of low reputation may not only lower your own but also lead you astray by the faulty assumptions, premises and data of the unscrupulous."

References[edit]
  1. ^ Sayings of Poor Richard: Benjamin Franklin (PDF). rocklin.k12.ca.us. Retrieved December 1, 2011.
  2. ^ Franklin, Benjamin (1999). Wit and Wisdom from Poor Richard's Almanack. Courier Dover Publications. Retrieved December 1, 2011.
  3. ^ Frederick Edward Hulme (1902). Proverb Lore: Many Sayings, Wise Or Otherwise, on Many Subjects, Gleaned from Many Sources. Elliot Stock. Retrieved April 25, 2014.
  4. ^ Richard Chenevix Trench (1879). Proverbs and Their Lessons, Being the Substance of Lectures Delivered to Young Men's Societies. Macmillan and Company. Retrieved December 1, 2011.
 
Yes the no prep rule can be enforced and is at a local track near me.
They run burris tires. When they come off the track tires are removed and washed with water only at a wash station. The tires are marked for each competitor do they get thr same set back every time. They are issued while going to the grid.
At the end of the night the tires remain in custody of the track as the same process the following week.
They're doing 2 classes like this one kids and one adult.
So it can be done.
Yeah I'm not buying tires and let the track keep them, let the track buy them
 
I believe this thread is indicative of the maxim, "Nice guys finish last." I'm content to be a nice guy, who's had the fortune to win. But I won't do it at the price of my soul. That's why I like the open classes now. No (few) rules, very little tech time wasted, fun driving with the throttle and brakes, and neat projects. Keep adding HP until the tires don't matter. :)
 
Yeah I'm not buying tires and let the track keep them, let the track buy them
Why not. They're your tires they just stay in possession of the track so no one does anything to them. Like roll the inside or anything else. That way everyone one on the same level playing field.
 
It never ceases to amaze me,
You can almost tell whether someone races sprint/asphalt or dirt speedway simply by reading their opinion on how tires should be handled. :) It's like a clash of cultures, or even religions.

There are many things that would equalize the tire situation, as long as all kart racers agree on the same thing.
And what are the chances of that happening? :)

IMO, tires are not a "game". I believe Mark Donahue in "Unfair Advantage" said something to the effect that, the person who spends the most time understanding how their tires interact with the racing surface will probably win.
 
If anyone has to cheat to win then they dont have confidence in their driver and setup. Thats why there are certain rules on engines, clutches, tires, ect. My race team does not cheat and when it comes to the tech guy at the track he needs to be unbiased in his decisions whether he built the engine or not. And as far as a no prep rule that would be virtually impossible. What happens with these guys who are buying some used tires cause they cant afford new sets of cut tires. Everyone on here selling says they never ran harsh preps who really knows what they ran.
 
At the local sprint track (Road America) we use very hard tires. Bridgestone YDS.
We have a no prep rule and use a durometer to check tires.
Originally i didn't think a durometer would work but i have since changed my mind. It has been working very well for several years now.
Yes it's my opinion and i'm sure there are people that won't believe it but thats my experience.
A while ago they threw out one guy that was intentionally cheating and he hasn't been back since.
You could see it on the track and his tires and trailer had that special smell.
There are also expensive tire sniffers as well as sending tires off to someone to be tested.
I know of one traveling series that has sent tires off to be tested.
 
Local points racing Friday and Saturday nights are barely surviving now, they sure cannot afford an expensive sniffer plus another tech guy or price of testing.
How would you see prep on track if only one guy was using it, and not see it on the grid, unless he's rolling out with wet creo, just because you smell it does not meaning it's being used there a lot of people race more than 1 track.
 
Yeah I'm not buying tires and let the track keep them, let the track buy them

"Well if it isnt in the budget, that just means you shouldnt be racing."

It's all a matter of degree and where each racer chooses to draw the line.
 
I don't see where prep is a big deal. You prep for grip and if you ain't got enough grip you prep some more. If you got too much grip then you prepped too much. No different then any other adjustment.
 
"Well if it isnt in the budget, that just means you shouldnt be racing."

It's all a matter of degree and where each racer chooses to draw the line.
I have bunches of tires, why would I be limited to one set?
This racer wanted to draw the line for everyone at his level.
 
Why can't people just accept the fact that it's part of the game? It's not illegal, so just add that to the weekly budget. Most preps are around $30 a quart, that's not that much. Plus trying to outsmart the competition is part of the fun. Just my opinion.
 
At the local sprint track (Road America) we use very hard tires. Bridgestone YDS.
We have a no prep rule and use a durometer to check tires.
Originally i didn't think a durometer would work but i have since changed my mind. It has been working very well for several years now.
Yes it's my opinion and i'm sure there are people that won't believe it but thats my experience.
A while ago they threw out one guy that was intentionally cheating and he hasn't been back since.
You could see it on the track and his tires and trailer had that special smell.
There are also expensive tire sniffers as well as sending tires off to someone to be tested.
I know of one traveling series that has sent tires off to be tested.
Sent off for what to be tested? Lucas Oil and WoO, among a few others, have a "benchmark" that Hoosier has sent the testing facility. During testing the lab determines if the tire is within the parameters of chemicals used during construction of the tire, or whether an "outside" chemical has been detected.
If you dont know what chemicals were used in the construction of the tire, what would you be asking the lab to do?
 
Yes the no prep rule can be enforced and is at a local track near me.
They run burris tires. When they come off the track tires are removed and washed with water only at a wash station. The tires are marked for each competitor do they get thr same set back every time. They are issued while going to the grid.
At the end of the night the tires remain in custody of the track as the same process the following week.
They're doing 2 classes like this one kids and one adult.
So it can be done.
If indeed youre talking about Millbridge, its Hoosier tires, its only 2 classes, and its for the winged karts on Wednesday night. Friday night karts its prep allowed.
 
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