Tire Game are you sick of it ?

[Ted Hamilton]

The problem with prep is not what happens on Saturday...it's the hours per per week beyond that, and the added toxicity. It's also the introduction of a variable that doesn't really need to be there for amateur motor sports. Yes, it hurts local racing, precisely because it makes things more complicated and makes the learning and spending curves higher. Is it insurmountable? Well, the new people coming in prove it's not, but as to whether clubs and tracks would see more participation and better racing without it -- I think the answer would be yes. I would have all classes open tire, with duro rule -- simplest way to allow widest legal variety. People always claim that you'd have to buy several more sets, but I think that's bunk because after a few weeks, the fast people would either settle on one brand, or else it would be confirmed that more than one tire can be made to work and thus, run what you want....

 

[krtrcn]

If indeed youre talking about Millbridge, its Hoosier tires, its only 2 classes, and its for the winged karts on Wednesday night. Friday night karts its prep allowed.

No im not talking about millbridge

 

[Jimbo]

Jimbo said:
At the local sprint track (Road America) we use very hard tires. Bridgestone YDS.
We have a no prep rule and use a durometer to check tires.
Originally i didn't think a durometer would work but i have since changed my mind. It has been working very well for several years now.
Yes it's my opinion and i'm sure there are people that won't believe it but thats my experience.
A while ago they threw out one guy that was intentionally cheating and he hasn't been back since.
You could see it on the track and his tires and trailer had that special smell.
There are also expensive tire sniffers as well as sending tires off to someone to be tested.
I know of one traveling series that has sent tires off to be tested.
Click to expand...

SoCo Said:
Sent off for what to be tested? Lucas Oil and WoO, among a few others, have a "benchmark" that Hoosier has sent the testing facility. During testing the lab determines if the tire is within the parameters of chemicals used during construction of the tire, or whether an "outside" chemical has been detected.
If you dont know what chemicals were used in the construction of the tire, what would you be asking the lab to do?

How about just comparing them to a new tire?

 

[Messick Racing 320]

Tire Game?
It's only a tire game if you personally make it a tire game. There is no rule stating that if you don't have x amount of tires or new tires you won't be competitive. As a local racer you spend what you can afford and from there you make what you have work. The only theory in tire game that is true is who can make them work the best with longevity. Most who have a ton of tires can't figure out longevity so they use multiple sets to achieve there speed. Most that think there getting beat by a tire game is false. Your just getting beat by someone who knows setup and can drive. Sure it's hard to beat money but it can be done and I'm one that can honestly say I've done it. I've been one of the lowest budget racers since I got into it. If you can't make what you have work then it doesn't matter how much money you spend on tires, prep, kart,or engine. You'll always blame it on something other than what the real problem is. There will always be someone faster than the next, that's why it's called racing. I have beat plenty on the same set of tires I ran all year, and let me tell you it's pretty sweet when you show up to a track and see multiple $250,000 motor homes and 32ft trailers with 1 kart and 10 plus sets of tires and you spank them on older equipment and 1 set of tires. Funny to sit back and watch them scratch there heads, it's not a tire game.

 

[Flyinhillbilly]

if You can’t outspend them, then your only options are to outsmart and outdrive them.
I started the GF’s kids on untreated tires and dry and slick tracks. I got the chassis as fast as I could without prep, and as soon as I added prep to the program they got real hard to beat.
I worked on talent before I worked on tires.

 

[XXX#40]

Tire Game?
It's only a tire game if you personally make it a tire game. There is no rule stating that if you don't have x amount of tires or new tires you won't be competitive. As a local racer you spend what you can afford and from there you make what you have work. The only theory in tire game that is true is who can make them work the best with longevity. Most who have a ton of tires can't figure out longevity so they use multiple sets to achieve there speed. Most that think there getting beat by a tire game is false. Your just getting beat by someone who knows setup and can drive. Sure it's hard to beat money but it can be done and I'm one that can honestly say I've done it. I've been one of the lowest budget racers since I got into it. If you can't make what you have work then it doesn't matter how much money you spend on tires, prep, kart,or engine. You'll always blame it on something other than what the real problem is. There will always be someone faster than the next, that's why it's called racing. I have beat plenty on the same set of tires I ran all year, and let me tell you it's pretty sweet when you show up to a track and see multiple $250,000 motor homes and 32ft trailers with 1 kart and 10 plus sets of tires and you spank them on older equipment and 1 set of tires. Funny to sit back and watch them scratch there heads, it's not a tire game.

just because they have a big motor home/ trailer doesnt mean they know what they are doing, and if youre beating guys on year old tires and no prep, I have to question the competition you race against, you might do that to one track wonders that dont really know what they are doing, but i'd bet big money. you enter any money race with year old tires and no prep you'll be a back marker.
Fresh tire over year old tires are probably worth over a second a lap, you do away with prep, and the have will be slapping frexh tires on every weekend, then lets see you compete.
For those that dont want to learn, prep actually make tires last longer, now whats cheaper, 3 quarts of prep or 7 or 8 sets of new tires a season?

 

[XXX#40]

The problem with prep is not what happens on Saturday...it's the hours per per week beyond that, and the added toxicity. It's also the introduction of a variable that doesn't really need to be there for amateur motor sports. Yes, it hurts local racing, precisely because it makes things more complicated and makes the learning and spending curves higher. Is it insurmountable? Well, the new people coming in prove it's not, but as to whether clubs and tracks would see more participation and better racing without it -- I think the answer would be yes. I would have all classes open tire, with duro rule -- simplest way to allow widest legal variety. People always claim that you'd have to buy several more sets, but I think that's bunk because after a few weeks, the fast people would either settle on one brand, or else it would be confirmed that more than one tire can be made to work and thus, run what you want....

Ted, the haves will just buy more new tires if you do away with prep, I see that many posting dont understand the benefit that prep has, the only difference today no one wants to take the time to learn how to correctly work prep, they want everyone to step down to their level instead of working hard and learning

 

[Messick Racing 320]

just because they have a big motor home/ trailer doesnt mean they know what they are doing, and if youre beating guys on year old tires and no prep, I have to question the competition you race against, you might do that to one track wonders that dont really know what they are doing, but i'd bet big money. you enter any money race with year old tires and no prep you'll be a back marker.
Fresh tire over year old tires are probably worth over a second a lap, you do away with prep, and the have will be slapping frexh tires on every weekend, then lets see you compete.
For those that dont want to learn, prep actually make tires last longer, now whats cheaper, 3 quarts of prep or 7 or 8 sets of new tires a season?

First off there was nothing said about no prep, and I was wrong on the tires being a year old. They were 2 years old. I don't know where you race but have yet to see a ton of $250,000 motor homes show up to a local race. It was a money race and I was a local that beat the money chasers. That's what's wrong with karting. This guy thinks it's all about new tires and old tires can't win and it's been proven older tires are just as fast if taken care of. It doesn't really matter to me who buys multiple sets of tires I will put my equipment up against anyone's trailer full of tires any day. I only added my facts for the other little guys that don't have the funds to buy 10sets of tires a week, because you guys can be beat. I've done it

 

[racing promotor]

New tires are not the fastest across the board in all cases especially Burris and 33's, you take a good bit up track when your racing under a 33 only rule, you'll be glad you had 2 year old tires and be looking for 4 yr old set, BUT IF the track requires fresh tires then that's what you better have.

 

[XXX#40]

First off there was nothing said about no prep, and I was wrong on the tires being a year old. They were 2 years old. I don't know where you race but have yet to see a ton of $250,000 motor homes show up to a local race. It was a money race and I was a local that beat the money chasers. That's what's wrong with karting. This guy thinks it's all about new tires and old tires can't win and it's been proven older tires are just as fast if taken care of. It doesn't really matter to me who buys multiple sets of tires I will put my equipment up against anyone's trailer full of tires any day. I only added my facts for the other little guys that don't have the funds to buy 10sets of tires a week, because you guys can be beat. I've done it

Please give us the name of the track and this money race you won, like I said if you beat big money on an older kart and 2 yr old tires I question the competition, like I said size of motor home. trailer, equipment doesnt automatically make them "Top teams?
And no older tires with all kinds of laps on them are not as fast as new tires prepped for the condition, unless youre racing on a wet track
Our home track likes older NEW tires that has been cured almost a year before running them.
Here is just a weekly race at our home track, get back to me on the motorhomes

 

[SoCo Tire Treatments]

SoCo Said:
Sent off for what to be tested? Lucas Oil and WoO, among a few others, have a "benchmark" that Hoosier has sent the testing facility. During testing the lab determines if the tire is within the parameters of chemicals used during construction of the tire, or whether an "outside" chemical has been detected.
If you dont know what chemicals were used in the construction of the tire, what would you be asking the lab to do?

How about just comparing them to a new tire?

The lab dont just compare to a new tire, they need parameters to work with.

 

[Jimbo]

Please tell me why they can't get those parameters from a new tire.

 

[XXX#40]

Who is supposed to pay for all this testing? Last numbers I saw its expensive to test

 

[Jimbo]

Who is supposed to pay for all this testing? Last numbers I saw its expensive to test

#1. Please share those numbers with us.
#2. How important is the the longevity of the sport to you?
#3. The tire wars that are constantly going on offers an opportunity to get the tire company to help subsidise it.
#4. If you have a $1000.00 to $10,000 purse it it doesn't seem to outlandish to me to use some of that money to pay for the testing.
#5. I'm thinking other people have have other suggestions.

 

[SoCo Tire Treatments]

#1. Please share those numbers with us.
#2. How important is the the longevity of the sport to you?
#3. The tire wars that are constantly going on offers an opportunity to get the tire company to help subsidise it.
#4. If you have a $1000.00 to $10,000 purse it it doesn't seem to outlandish to me to use some of that money to pay for the testing.
#5. I'm thinking other people have have other suggestions.

Tire prepping has been going on for over 40 years, folks whining over it has been recent. Longevity of the sport isnt an issue here concerning tire prep BUT those who feel entitled to win because of social media and participation trophies. Folks think they deserve to win, thats what they been taught in recent years when the truth of the matter is that it takes work to win. This isnt tire prep hurting the sport, since its been around for over 40 yrs.

 

[SoCo Tire Treatments]

Please tell me why they can't get those parameters from a new tire.

Dont believe the lab can say certain on what is EXACTLY in the make up of the tire, much less the Trade Secrets, this is why they need parameters, which were given to them by Hoosier for the Lucas Oil and WoO Series.
Should the lab pay for the testing of every tire for go karts with their own money? Having to buy tires, of every brand and compound, they pay for the cost of testing?
Do you really think they would do this as a business?

 

[XXX#40]

#1. Please share those numbers with us.
#2. How important is the the longevity of the sport to you?
#3. The tire wars that are constantly going on offers an opportunity to get the tire company to help subsidise it.
#4. If you have a $1000.00 to $10,000 purse it it doesn't seem to outlandish to me to use some of that money to pay for the testing.
#5. I'm thinking other people have have other suggestions.

#1 800.00 a tire + the cost of the tire.
#2 karting isn't going anywhere for the foreseeable future.
#3 there isn't a tire war where we race.
#4 money races are a minority, and those purses are dependent on entries, so it appears you want karters to pay the bill.
#5 yes, learn how to use prep, it's cheaper than buying new tires every other week

 

[XXX#40]

Tire prepping has been going on for over 40 years, folks whining over it has been recent. Longevity of the sport isnt an issue here concerning tire prep BUT those who feel entitled to win because of social media and participation trophies. Folks think they deserve to win, thats what they been taught in recent years when the truth of the matter is that it takes work to win. This isnt tire prep hurting the sport, since its been around for over 40 yrs.

Exactly, entitlement.

 

[krtrcn]

When I first started most of us were on five inch rims, and the main choice was dunlop or brigstone on dirt. I wish we could go back to simpler times, before all different preps and maxxis tires came along. There's alot wrong in this sport now. Everyone think's you need new tires every time you hit the track. Ive bought alot of tires at big races for a fraction of what they have in them , because they think their no good after around of practice or a heat race. It seem's that most track you run maxxis tires, and everyone think's that what you have to have.
I know that there are other brand's that work just as well if not better, with alot less prep.
IMO the two major things wrong is people "racers" and track owner's are afraid to try other brands. The second thing is these big money races. I know guy's that wont show up at a track for anything under 1000$. That's fine, but it's hard a local guy to compete with someone with a endless of groomed tires. Thats why I stopped doing those races.

 

[Jimbo]

I'm back.
I'm sorry for playing hookie on this post but needed to contact some acquaintances in the tire business to get some feedback.
I have been sworn to secrecy on the names of these people.
So many times on discussions like this innocent people can get dragged through the mud. I definitely don't want that to happen!
However, here is a name of a company in the heart of dirt oval country that does tire testing.

Blue Ridge Laboratories Inc.
522 Pine Mountain Road
Hudson, NC 28638
Phone: 828-728-0149
blueridgelabslenoir@gmail.com

Here is a description of the process.
"My colleague here at (fill in a major tire company) that handles all of the dirt late model tires has a lot of experience with this lab. The sample procurement process is quite extensive and involves grooving the tire (with a new or cleaned blade) in three separate locations on the tire tread - inside, middle, outside – while rotating the tire roughly 120 degrees after each sample is taken. The rubber strip is placed in a vial and packaged in an evidence/property bag (https://banksupplies.com/evidence-85x8) before mailing to the lab. The name of the series or track should appear on the bag label along with the tire size, compound, and date tin of the tire"

I have also been told that the price of the testing is quit affordable, way less than $800.00 ----- Way less.