Tire Game are you sick of it ?

Jimbo

If you talk the talk you should walk the walk
I'll see Mark and Jim Lipari and Joe DeBover this Sat and Sunday at Badger Kart Club for the next CKNA 206 Cup race. I'm positive i don't need to to suspect any of them of illegally treating their tires.
I don't think the TS racing team will be there but i'll see them at the final Championship race this fall at New Castle.
I'm not saying there aren't cheaters in all forms of racing as well as everything else in our lives but i won't condone it and will do what i can to help either penalize those people and eliminate them if necessary.
 

XXX#40

Member
If they outlawed it Jimbo, I would obey, but in my heart I know I'd be in the minority when it comes to dirt oval..
 

Jimbo

If you talk the talk you should walk the walk
If i was a dirt track owner i'd be scared to death to allow it knowing that someday i'd want to sell.
I don't think anyone would want a house built on ground that has all those chemicals in it.
Especially if i had to have my own well.
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
Going the route of epa and ground chemicals .
In comparison karting is a very minute contributor.
Not saying it does not contribute , just in comparison to the loacl auto repair shop or family farm or your local construction company . The amount of chemicals dumped or leeched into the ground by them is huge .
Many of these operations are rural or on the outskirts of a city .
These operations get bought out and turned into housing developments or custom homes .
Face it even major chemical companys are caught regularly dumping stuff or they find a pipe they didn't know about that was directed into the local creek.
Even in Minnesota and Wisconsin your not supposed to eat limited amounts of fish for pregnant women and children.
Undoubtedly the contamination of the ground is a concern .
Pushing better disposal and protection for children and adults would go further to reduce contamination.
 

XXX#40

Member
Going the route of epa and ground chemicals .
In comparison karting is a very minute contributor.
Not saying it does not contribute , just in comparison to the loacl auto repair shop or family farm or your local construction company . The amount of chemicals dumped or leeched into the ground by them is huge .
Many of these operations are rural or on the outskirts of a city .
These operations get bought out and turned into housing developments or custom homes .
Face it even major chemical companys are caught regularly dumping stuff or they find a pipe they didn't know about that was directed into the local creek.
Even in Minnesota and Wisconsin your not supposed to eat limited amounts of fish for pregnant women and children.
Undoubtedly the contamination of the ground is a concern .
Pushing better disposal and protection for children and adults would go further to reduce contamination.
They closed the famed Atomic speedway in Tennessee, and when they tested the soil, the only thing it was good for was a trucking company parking lot, prime land as well
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
Atomic speedway was a kart track or big car track ?
Was it in existence for a long time ?
My understanding is if they test it , it comes up contaminated it neededs to be remidiated . You can't just pave over it . This brings cost into the equation.

What it boils down too is if your a sprint racer no prep is the consensus.
Oval racers are generally fine with it .
 

XXX#40

Member
Atomic speedway was a kart track or big car track ?
Was it in existence for a long time ?
My understanding is if they test it , it comes up contaminated it neededs to be remidiated . You can't just pave over it . This brings cost into the equation.

What it boils down too is if your a sprint racer no prep is the consensus.
Oval racers are generally fine with it .
they had to cut so much off the top and take it somewhere to be burned.
Atomic was a big car track
 
If i was a dirt track owner i'd be scared to death to allow it knowing that someday i'd want to sell.
I don't think anyone would want a house built on ground that has all those chemicals in it.
Especially if i had to have my own well.
Jimbo, heres where you really need to take a step back and learn what is happening. The chemicals from tire prep, lots of it isnt even getting to the ground where its enough to contaminate. Much much less than what oil, methanol, gas, tire cleaners, etc. do.
The best kart track in the country, arguably, GKK (Carnesville), just recently sold. Been having kart races there for over 20 yrs, and home of the biggest event in karting, Thanksgiving Thunder....no issues selling. Its alongside I85.
Ive known others which have sold, and still continue to race, ive known some to even have been turned to shopping malls, etc.
 

Jimbo

If you talk the talk you should walk the walk
5876

I was at the CKNA series sprint race at Badger Kart Club this weekend.
Thought i'd share this with everyone.
Incidentally, i helped out with inspecting and marking tires.
 

Ted Hamilton

helmet painter and racer
I read a recent thread on facebook about tires and prepping, and sets required to be competitive. Tire budgets for winning Southeast entrants varied from $10K to $25K. This is what's wrong with karting. Getting rid of the tire game would reduce the bill considerably, regardless of what the tire companies, other competitors, tire prep people, and such claim. It just requires the will to do so by the racers and/or the tracks. I don't see it happening down here without a new org forming and mandating it. The tracks are too independent and the racers won't limit themselves.
 
I read a recent thread on facebook about tires and prepping, and sets required to be competitive. Tire budgets for winning Southeast entrants varied from $10K to $25K. This is what's wrong with karting. Getting rid of the tire game would reduce the bill considerably, regardless of what the tire companies, other competitors, tire prep people, and such claim. It just requires the will to do so by the racers and/or the tracks. I don't see it happening down here without a new org forming and mandating it. The tracks are too independent and the racers won't limit themselves.
Is that per event, monthly, yearly?
 

Ted Hamilton

helmet painter and racer
Is that per event, monthly, yearly?
Yearly. For the record, my objection to the tire game kinda' stems from an Engineering perspective -- if a product has to be continually modified to do its' intended purpose, it's a poor design. Now all of Engineering is a compromise, so not all ends can be achieved simultaneously.... you can't have "as fast as possible" and "lasts forever" in the same tire. So if the target is ultimate speed, the price you have to pay is high, monetarily -- short tire life, frequent replacement, fewer heat cycles before degredation. If the target is value, the price is having to settle for less speed. There are also more subtle trade-offs -- similar to "spec" racing, once the packages are close, the factors that surround that last .001 of laptime are the ones that make the difference, so people pay GOBS of money to chase those .001's.... But if available power always exceeds available traction, then the cost of engine building goes down too, because power is no longer the limiting factor. So if we really want to make karting cheaper, we should go to VERY hard tires, and more HP. That would also have the positive side effect of teaching people how to actually drive instead of flat footed punting and freight training we call racing around here. JMO, of course.
 
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I read a recent thread on facebook about tires and prepping, and sets required to be competitive. Tire budgets for winning Southeast entrants varied from $10K to $25K. This is what's wrong with karting. Getting rid of the tire game would reduce the bill considerably, regardless of what the tire companies, other competitors, tire prep people, and such claim. It just requires the will to do so by the racers and/or the tracks. I don't see it happening down here without a new org forming and mandating it. The tracks are too independent and the racers won't limit themselves.
How would getting rid of prep stop the teams you mention from spending same amount on tires ?
 

Ted Hamilton

helmet painter and racer
If you want to stop spending on tires, you have to make that spending pointless. That requires a tire that has very little change with heat cycles. I would start with hard, skinny tires. Of course some teams might try to buy new sets and shave them weekly, but if it proves of little benefit on track, they'd stop. Which is why karts need to be under-tired instead of over-tired. Add more HP and more duro hardness until the tires aren't the dominant factor in tuning. Besides, a kart that slides is fun to drive... :)
 

Jimbo

If you talk the talk you should walk the walk
You need to be a better at setting up the kart and also be a better driver to go fast on hard tires.
I sure hope it isn't 10 to 25 K per event or monthly.
A monthly tire bill like that would most definitely destroy the sport.
 
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Ted Hamilton

helmet painter and racer
I sure hope it isn't 10 to 25 K per event or monthly. A monthly tire bill like that would most definitely destroy the sport.
I'd argue that a monthly bill more than $1000 for ALL the expenses is karting is what's killing the sport... You can't legislate spending, but you can make it pointless... I'd rather race a kart than a wallet.
 
You need to be a better at setting up the kart and also be a better driver to go fast on hard tires.
I sure hope it isn't 10 to 25 K per event or monthly.
A monthly tire bill like that would most definitely destroy the sport.
Even If a few would be spending that much HELP me understand HOW that most definitely destroy's the sport.
 
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