Track Tac

Tire Game are you sick of it ?

flattop1 said:
When I joined WKA and IKF , I was granted the right to compete in there sanctioned races. Regardless of age or skill level .
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WKA roadracing requires verification of skill, and has tiers of licensing. Why the sprint and oval worlds don't is a mystery... It's the track's responsibility to ensure safety because they provide insurance (which is typically secondary insurance, which many don't realize.) So yes, the track has no business allowing unqualified people on track. And parents are foolish if they don't ensure that their child has the training and skills to be safe on track. It's a dual responsibility, but ultimately the buck stops with the track.

The WKA is all but dead in oval racing because the tracks abandoned their sanction, (but not the rules, interestingly.) And further, the tracks run independently only because the insurance companies allow for it...if insurance required sanctioning, then every track would have to join AKRA, WKA, IKF, or similar and instantly be legally bound to those rulesets...

I'm sort of a neutral party to licensing....the fact that tracks don't require it makes it easy to join karting. But because they don't have any skill verification, it makes the entry-level classes somewhat dangerous to join...and fights and other carnage are semi-common. But whether it's a good idea or not, licensing would certainly enforce a ruleset bigger than the racers.... The bigger issue at play is, "should tracks be run like a democracy, guided by the prevailing desire of the racers?" or should it be like NASCAR -- the track saying, "my way or the highway." There are certainly pros and cons to each....

But to the original topic of tire game being solved, it would take the central control for enforcement....that ship has already sailed as far as the racers go..... At least until someone forms an org that offers an alternative and it proves popular...

Another interesting solution would be to make the tires soooooo sticky that no grip would have to be added....that's often the case in the sprint world, where people are trying to free up the kart... And perhaps that's why there's less prepping going on there. They have started stretching tires, for different reasons... Many ways to skin a cat....
 
XXX#40 said:
How is it the tracks fault that you didnt prepare your child?
Also WKA is all but dead in dirt oval, so imo they have no say so
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You can show a kid a flag in a book or a YouTube video 50 times. It doesn't mean that once they get on track they immediately do the right thing 100% of the time. There are some things that must be experienced to fully comprehend, especially for kids.

I listed 3 organizations that could take the lead, doesn't have to be WKA. But for all of the WKA is dead in dirt oval chatter I see, there isn't a PA track that doesn't use "WKA rules except AKRA/NKA clone rules" on their rule page. Sure seems to be kicking just fine when it fits the tracks needs.
 
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sticky tires would just introduce a different set of preps. The truth is you aren't going to get rid of it. We can both be tired of it, but it isn't going away. Even the treaded tires get needled and prepped despite what some tell you. It's an interesting conversation, but a wistful one.
 
Tire prep threads sooner or later end up in an excersise in Debate .
Taking the Insurance Company requiring sanctioned by ( Your Organization ) Tact .
The whole problem stems from the Insurance Company not requiring Licensing by the Approved Organization .

No doubt the WKA rule set is the industry Standard , with your favorite exceptions ?
 
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JoshuaGuiher said:
You can show a kid a flag in a book or a YouTube video 50 times. It doesn't mean that once they get on track they immediately do the right thing 100% of the time. There are some things that must be experienced to fully comprehend, especially for kids.

I listed 3 organizations that could take the lead, doesn't have to be WKA. But for all of the WKA is dead in dirt oval chatter I see, there isn't a PA track that doesn't use "WKA rules except AKRA/NKA clone rules" on their rule page. Sure seems to be kicking just fine when it fits the tracks needs.
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Thats why you take responsibility hang on the fence and show them what your talking about, the track does enough work
And WKA is dead in dirt oval, some tracks use their motor rules to tech by, but they sure arent policing chassis like they use to
 
XXX#40 said:
Thats why you take responsibility hang on the fence and show them what your talking about, the track does enough work
And WKA is dead in dirt oval, some tracks use their motor rules to tech by, but they sure arent policing chassis like they use to
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I'm plenty good with how I trained my kid. He started when he was 3 and has had lessons from some of the best in the business including help from Brandon Adkins, Dan (who currently works with Luca Mars) and Nick at Nitro Kart.

It is the other kids I worry about. I have seen too many times where parents fight about an issue with someone else's kid -- because it is always the fault of the other kid -- something completely avoidable with a group training mentality. We lost a race last year once when a track refused to allow parental instruction and threw the checkered when a kid on their first night didn't know the difference between a single and double file restart. It wouldn't have been that hard for a corner worker to provide instructions or to allow the parent to help out. It is not welcoming to beginners and that is what all of this should be about.
 
JoshuaGuiher said:
I'm plenty good with how I trained my kid. He started when he was 3 and has had lessons from some of the best in the business including help from Brandon Adkins, Dan (who currently works with Luca Mars) and Nick at Nitro Kart.

It is the other kids I worry about. I have seen too many times where parents fight about an issue with someone else's kid -- because it is always the fault of the other kid -- something completely avoidable with a group training mentality. We lost a race last year once when a track refused to allow parental instruction and threw the checkered when a kid on their first night didn't know the difference between a single and double file restart. It wouldn't have been that hard for a corner worker to provide instructions or to allow the parent to help out. It is not welcoming to beginners and that is what all of this should be about.
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You said the track should teach, but here you are osting just what I said, its up to the parents to teach, not track workers
If you race sprint, why are you here debating a tire prep issue that is more geared toward dirt oval racers?
and like I said WKA is dead to dirt oval racers
 
XXX#40 said:
You said the track should teach, but here you are osting just what I said, its up to the parents to teach, not track workers
If you race sprint, why are you here debating a tire prep issue that is more geared toward dirt oval racers?
and like I said WKA is dead to dirt oval racers
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We do both. There is no sprint track within 3-hours of us so we mostly do dirt right now for budget reasons, but we hope to run CKNA at New Castle in the fall.

I am saying getting young drivers up to speed and as safe as possible is a group effort and can't be 100% before a kid goes on track. It requires help from the track, even if that means something as simple as running an extra caution lap while a parent provides instruction. A standardized program wouldn't hurt is all I am saying.
 
Ted Hamilton said:
No, I stand by my original comment. Karters are steering the ship instead of orgs, but only because the tracks are weak and not exercising their power. If all the tracks banded together, defined common classes, and didn't flex, the racers would bend to the structure. Instead, everyone's competing for the same pool with various enticements....It's like churches fighting over members in the same town.....get over it and go find new blood... So, yes, I agree that racers drove the clone craze....but the tracks allowed it by their inaction and lack of central control. In reality, WKA allowed it by not forcing tracks to run like a truly sanctioned body. And don't get me started on WKA.....the USAC of karting. Love 'em and hate 'em at the same time.
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WKA had absolutely zero to do with the clone craze, they were utilizing the animal motor and going through some turmoil which they still havent recovered from.
 
SoCo -- I'd say WKA actually DROVE the clone craze, by not being responsive to racer needs, leading to tracks abandoning them and them losing their influence, and people seeking cheaper options...
 
racing promotor said:
Even If a few would be spending that much HELP me understand HOW that most definitely destroy's the sport.
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Ok i stand corrected.
You would still have those people that are capable of spending $25,000 on tires still in the sport but the average (the mainstay) kart racer would head for the exit!!
 
Jimbo said:
Ok i stand corrected.
You would still have those people that are capable of spending $25,000 on tires still in the sport but the average (the mainstay) kart racer would head for the exit!!
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Sure If they were forced to do the same BUT there not, I could care less about the ones that out spend the rest of us, It sure is not going to sent me heading for the exit.
 
Good for you;) but you're smarter than most of the people that come on here for help.
I'll bet you would be fast even if you were not allowed to treat tire.
Being in this business i know that if i tell a new person they are going to have to spend $10 to 25K just for tires that will be the last time i will see them.
 
Jimbo said:
Good for you;) but you're smarter than most of the people that come on here for help.
I'll bet you would be fast even if you were not allowed to treat tire.
Being in this business i know that if i tell a new person they are going to have to spend $10 to 25K just for tires that will be the last time i will see them.
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But WHY would you tell a new person that ? Just because a few do spend more does Not mean everyone has to is my point, even IF tire prepping went away you would still have the ones out spending every on something else, I just don't understand why anyone would think just because someone else can out spend everyone on whatever that they cannot compete. Even IF they would spend $50,000 on tires you can still only run 1 set at a time that's what evens the playing field more.
 
I've only been in this sport for 3 years (well actually my son) but from what I've seen the problem with racing is the amount of money people are willing to spend to make sure they/their kids win. If every track had a no prep rule the same people who pay a tire guy would just start paying the chassis builders to help them set up their kart or heck even build them a kart no one else could get or they'd spend even more on motors to guarantee theirs got that extra
.1 we are all looking for. The same people that run up front now will always run up front because racing is no longer about skill it's about how much money you have and 9 times out of 10 if you watch a big race the winners are on a team. Some may have skill and be picked for the team but most are paying to be on that team. Those teams have access to stuff the average Joe doesn't and that will never change.
 
Jimbo said:
Good for you;) but you're smarter than most of the people that come on here for help.
I'll bet you would be fast even if you were not allowed to treat tire.
Being in this business i know that if i tell a new person they are going to have to spend $10 to 25K just for tires that will be the last time i will see them.
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You are going to tell a new person into the sport to go run the Pro races and series?
Once again apples to apples, not apples to oranges, local racers are NOT spending this kind of money.
 
Yes it requires more funds to chase series racing & for some it's just not in the cards, but to think your only getting beat because someone is out spending you is just an excuse holding you back, I sure hope your not telling your kids that as there are a lot of life lessons in this sport would not want them thinking the only way to success is to buy it.
 
racing promotor said:
Yes it requires more funds to chase series racing & for some it's just not in the cards, but to think your only getting beat because someone is out spending you is just an excuse holding you back, I sure hope your not telling your kids that as there are a lot of life lessons in this sport would not want them thinking the only way to success is to buy it.
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We would never tell our son that but don't think the other kids won't or even the other parents. We don't race the big series right now but we've had a kid at a local race tell our son he was going to beat him because he has a tire guy now and we've had a parent say that no one beats their son because they spend the most and have the best tire guy in the country. This was all last year but nothing has changed. We go to places we can be competitive it's more fun and always cheaper. We've been told these teams can get things others can't by people on the teams and by an outsider looking in it looks like money buys wins. Lets face it most tracks in the South you just hold on and go left. Very few are driving tracks. It all comes down to who has the best setup and the fastest tires and it's rare to see someone who isn't on a team win.
 
Kartracer123 said:
I've only been in this sport for 3 years (well actually my son) but from what I've seen the problem with racing is the amount of money people are willing to spend to make sure they/their kids win. If every track had a no prep rule the same people who pay a tire guy would just start paying the chassis builders to help them set up their kart or heck even build them a kart no one else could get or they'd spend even more on motors to guarantee theirs got that extra
.1 we are all looking for. The same people that run up front now will always run up front because racing is no longer about skill it's about how much money you have and 9 times out of 10 if you watch a big race the winners are on a team. Some may have skill and be picked for the team but most are paying to be on that team. Those teams have access to stuff the average Joe doesn't and that will never change.
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Well said.
 
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