Tire temp readings

What kind of info can you tell from taking the temperature of all four tires as soon as you get off the track? I took readings for the first time and was just woundering what I could accomplish with this info.
thanks in advance
 

Bandmn

Member
idk if it means anything but the person who helped me get my kart setup looked at the increase of tire pressure after a run vs actual tire temp.
 

CarlsonMotorsports

Premium User
It's not useless information. It "can" be helpful if you know how to use it to your advantage.

For instance, a tire that is creating more temperature is working harder, ie getting more of the load/grip.
Ex. If the RR is getting all of the temperature gain and no temp gain in the lr, then it may indicate too low of cross, wrong percentages, too quick of transfer, too much stagger, or something else.

You can also look at temperature gradient from outside to inside of the tire. This, along with pressure gain, can be useful to better determine correct stagger, camber, and air pressure needed in the tires.
Ex. The RF being hot on the inside edge would indicate that you could be running too much camber, or that the kart is pushing, ie too much left wheel input keeping the weight and footprint on the inside edge of the tire rather than more evenly placing the tire in the track.

With all that said, the parameters we are used to tuning within will vary little from low to high. Unless you've got something way off on your set-up, you won't see big differences in tire temps. A 30*F difference from left to right rear is very typical, even on low bite tracks.

I'm a firm believer that ALL data can be useful -- just that some is obviously more useful than others.
-----
🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
30 years of service to the karting industry
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
 
It's not useless information. It "can" be helpful if you know how to use it to your advantage.

For instance, a tire that is creating more temperature is working harder, ie getting more of the load/grip.
Ex. If the RR is getting all of the temperature gain and no temp gain in the lr, then it may indicate too low of cross, wrong percentages, too quick of transfer, too much stagger, or something else.

You can also look at temperature gradient from outside to inside of the tire. This, along with pressure gain, can be useful to better determine correct stagger, camber, and air pressure needed in the tires.
Ex. The RF being hot on the inside edge would indicate that you could be running too much camber, or that the kart is pushing, ie too much left wheel input keeping the weight and footprint on the inside edge of the tire rather than more evenly placing the tire in the track.

With all that said, the parameters we are used to tuning within will vary little from low to high. Unless you've got something way off on your set-up, you won't see big differences in tire temps. A 30*F difference from left to right rear is very typical, even on low bite tracks.

I'm a firm believer that ALL data can be useful -- just that some is obviously more useful than others.
-----
🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
30 years of service to the karting industry
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
thank you
 

XXX#40

TRUMP 2020
It's not useless information. It "can" be helpful if you know how to use it to your advantage.

For instance, a tire that is creating more temperature is working harder, ie getting more of the load/grip.
Ex. If the RR is getting all of the temperature gain and no temp gain in the lr, then it may indicate too low of cross, wrong percentages, too quick of transfer, too much stagger, or something else.

You can also look at temperature gradient from outside to inside of the tire. This, along with pressure gain, can be useful to better determine correct stagger, camber, and air pressure needed in the tires.
Ex. The RF being hot on the inside edge would indicate that you could be running too much camber, or that the kart is pushing, ie too much left wheel input keeping the weight and footprint on the inside edge of the tire rather than more evenly placing the tire in the track.

With all that said, the parameters we are used to tuning within will vary little from low to high. Unless you've got something way off on your set-up, you won't see big differences in tire temps. A 30*F difference from left to right rear is very typical, even on low bite tracks.

I'm a firm believer that ALL data can be useful -- just that some is obviously more useful than others.
-----
🏁Thanks and God bless,
Brian Carlson
Carlson Racing Engines
Vector Cutz
www.CarlsonMotorsports.com
Carlson Motorsports on Facebook
30 years of service to the karting industry
Linden, IN
765-339-4407
bcarlson@CarlsonMotorsports.com
Complete and utter BS, the tires cool off way to much during the cooldown lap after the race, and add in night time, cool temps, and the whole reason we cut tires to dissipate heat quicker, tire temps on a kart are useless, yoll gain more info by checking the pressures than taking temps, you'll gain more y just reading the tires and your lap times than taking temps.......pedal that BS to your sprint car buddies, we've won a **** load of races without tire temps, go to the big money races and watch the top guys, they arent worried about temps either why? because the info is skewed and useless
 

Cope1

Member
Pretty much what I have learned from the late model chassis setup classes that my teammate has been to. They say tire temps are useless unless you can stop the car immediately right after the checkered flag and take all 12 almost instantly due to the tire cooling off and thus giving inconsistent results.
 

CarlsonMotorsports

Premium User
ok, you win. Tire temps are useless then.

Question:
Since you are so concerned that the tire temps have cooled significantly on the cool down lap and before the scale area post race, couldn't that be attributed for?
I'm not looking for real time temps (that would be nice, but impractical.)
I'm expecting the tires to cool some (and actually they heat and cool much less than you might think.)
Simply laying your bare hand on each tire (specifically the right rear) can tell you a good bit about how the tire is working.
A big car generates considerably more heat in the tires. It also dissipates heat after a race. Again, that can be accounted for. Consistency on how quickly the tire can be checked is important, sure.
When you do tire testing with a manufacturer, whether it's big car or karting, I can guarantee you that you are looking at tire temperatures throughout.

To each their own, but to call it "BS" is simply ignorance.
 

XXX#40

TRUMP 2020
its still complete bs for karting, and thats after doing my own testing over a years time, I sold the 4 tire longacre probe at a loss.
And I have done testing with a manufacturer, and tire temps are useless on dirt oval karting, you gain more by reading the surface of a tire and the lap times than spending money and wasting time taking tire temps.
 

paulkish

old fart
IMHO tire temps on dirt weather you do it with the palm of your hand or gauge they are not useless bs.

I've also taken track temperature and found you could see "exactly" where right side tires were running on the track.

That's probably useless bs to except to maybe a driver.

I've also scoped out tires of karts right when they come off the track and as karts head into the scale. I could see differences in how rear tires were heated on the karts between the fast and the slow. As Brian said after that it's about how you use the info. Any real time comparison between karts IMHO is not bs and useless.
 
Let's take a turn and try to give some useful info on what we should expect to see If balance ( set up ) is 98% close, and were 98 % close on the right tire.
Pressure gains first should we expect to see gain the same in all 4, or slight difference and if so where ?
Same question with temps ( even though there not racing temps ) we realize they have cooled some, but should they all 4 be same or slight difference and if so where ? and in both cases if slight difference in gains does it matter if it's a low cross set - up or high cross set - up ?
 

paulkish

old fart
I have a question on air pressure.

I'm thinking if you evacuate your tires which no water base anything was used to mount and you fill with nitrogen, you would not get a tire pressure increase or it would be so minor it made no difference.

yes? no?
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
Great question .
My assumption is a low cross setup will have similar air pressure gains in all 4 tires.
With the left front gaining the lesser amount .

High cross the right frt gaining the most with the rr and left rear both similar air pressue gains .
Again an assumption.
 
Great question .
My assumption is a low cross setup will have similar air pressure gains in all 4 tires.
With the left front gaining the lesser amount .

High cross the right frt gaining the most with the rr and left rear both similar air pressue gains .
Again an assumption.
In both cases how much gain would you want to see to consider optimal ?
 

paulkish

old fart
I have not done this with a kart but I have at a couple of Winged Allstar sprint car races.

What I did was after each car came in from time trials and were put on the scales, I thermo pictured their rear tires. I then looked and found a sort of common picture coming from the fast qualifiers. I thought at least I could see in the thermo picture how, when and where the rear tires were being loaded and used to get the sort of like pictures. I also went out on the track and took thermo pictures of the track and could see the heat line into turn 3 and 1 tapering off some after entry. From the pictures I knew the general line and lines on the track for qualifying and also sort of how the fast qualifiers were heating their tires. After that it's a matter of adjusting your car in the way you think it would cause your tires to heat the same or similar to the fast qualifiers.

I see no reason the same couldn't be done with karts. Maybe I'll try it next year on karts.

I din't really care about actual temps but was looking for patterns in both rear tires and the track. The really cool thing was being able to see what I figured was the line most RR tires were taking. Nothing means that line is where the fast qualifiers ran but it was interesting.
 
Let's take a turn and try to give some useful info on what we should expect to see If balance ( set up ) is 98% close, and were 98 % close on the right tire.
Pressure gains first should we expect to see gain the same in all 4, or slight difference and if so where ?
Same question with temps ( even though there not racing temps ) we realize they have cooled some, but should they all 4 be same or slight difference and if so where ? and in both cases if slight difference in gains does it matter if it's a low cross set - up or high cross set - up ?
I should of added would your optimal gains be different for lower grip track VS high grip eventhough you dominated both races.
 

paulkish

old fart
I should of added would your optimal gains be different for lower grip track VS high grip eventhough you dominated both races.
Interesting question. My recollection is when we were the fastest and handling the best, kart or car came in with tires feeling cool not warm at all.

If the observation is correct then wouldn't it make heat always a symptom of something to fix and not how well the kart is working?

... :)
 
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