Trying to figure out a dry slick dirt track. NEED HELP

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intimidator3

New member
First I will say I have only been racing for about a year now, so I am still a beginner and any help would be appreciated. Most people are running clay tracks with probably lots of grip, well I am running on a small DIRT track that is usually dry slick with only one groove and that is on the bottom because all the loose dirt is in the upper groove.

ANYBODY WITH EXPERIENCE ON THIS TYPE OF TRACK WOULD BE GREAT!

I just bought a 2012 Trick Redemption upgrading from my older chassis. I have read a lot on here about how tires are everything especially in newer karts. I need to know if I concentrate more on tires or chassis setup too in my particular situation. Last week in my first time in the kart it was dry slick as always and the kart was junk. It didn't handle anywhere. I switched from the Maxxis tires that came with it to Burris 33s that I usually run (burris 33s is what just about everybody is running, but most really not experimenting with anything else because this is a new track). The kart did better ,but still wasn't great. I finished second in the heat race. Right before the feature it rained on the track. It was wet when we ran the feature which it usually is not. The kart ran ABSOLUTELY GREAT and I lead wire to wire and lapped half of the field. I would barely turn the wheel and the kart would turn itself into the corner and about halfway through it would turn itself again. IT WAS LIKE DRIVING A CADILLAC COMPARED TO MY OLD KART. ( I am assuming what I described is what a kart is supposed to drive like when it is setup and transferring weight properly.) THIS WEEK IT WAS DRY SLICK AGAIN AND THE KART WAS JUNK ALL NIGHT.

This is my situation. Here is all the info I can give you, because I haven't been able to afford a set of scales yet. According to what trick's website and just about every other kart's website says my front end geometry is totally wrong. I do have a caster/camber gauge and here are my numbers.
RF - 16 degrees CASTER and +2.5 CAMBER
LF - 14.5 degrees CASTER and -1 CAMBER

The Toe looks fine but the tie rods are in the same hole on both sides (the next to last one farthest from the wheel). IT also looks like it has quite a bit of cross just based on where the washers are located on the front.

The Camber is totally opposite from where it should be and I don't know if that is too much Caster or not. I also thought the tie rod on the left side is supposed to be farther forward than the right side.

My questions are HOW DID MY HOOK SO GOOD ON A TACKY TRACK WITH THE CAMBER THE WAY IT WAS AND BE SO BAD WHEN DRY? Should I set the camber to where it should be from factory? Should I decrease Caster some? Should I worry more about tires more than the chassis setup? What are the best tires for this type of track condition(DRY)? Also it just never felt like I was unloading the LR like I was when it was wet. I was loose going in and the kart never turned itself in the middle of the corner like it did when wet, it just pushed out. I took care of the loose going in by putting a softer tire on the RR but I never could get it to unload the LR and turn itself out of the corner like it did when wet. HOW CAN I FIX THIS?

I know this is long post and what I am trying to say may not make any sense or may even be wrong. Remember I am still new. I also know without knowing my percentages it will be hard to help, but once again any help would be appreciated especially in info on tires or setup on a short, dry slick DIRT track.
 
Your correct without all the numbers it's tough to say for sure, however if it was that good when tacky since you have no access to scales, you can help by working on your Tires and with the right prep, bottom line since the track has no bite in it you need to put the bite in your tires, for dry slick on 33's not really softer just a lot more Bite.

For what it's worth Mixture of Black Sand and Topaz ( both Trac Tac Products ) works great for dry slick.
 
Check your air I run dirt track to and tires pressure is between 3-6 psi not same the same in all four
 
racing promotor said:
Your correct without all the numbers it's tough to say for sure, however if it was that good when tacky since you have no access to scales, you can help by working on your Tires and with the right prep, bottom line since the track has no bite in it you need to put the bite in your tires, for dry slick on 33's not really softer just a lot more Bite.

For what it's worth Mixture of Black Sand and Topaz ( both Trac Tac Products ) works great for dry slick.
Click to expand...

THANKS for the help but isn't those the opposite numbers on camber.
 
how big is the track and what degree of banking? Is it more circle than an oval? That is a ton of caster too, is that a manufacturer recommendation? Most karts I've seen recommend somewhere around 8 LF and 12 RF as a good baseline.....I'd make some friends with some one who has some scales or start asking around to borrow some bathroom scales from neighbors or family members, It will get your close. It doesn't matter if they aren't entirely accurate persay..... as long as you use the same variables. (level them the best you can with shims, phonebooks, plywood etc....)Use the same scale for LF RF RR LR each time you scale. As long as you keep good notes and records and what change worked better/worse. I'm not a veteran chassis tuner by any means but if I had to speculate based on the info you gave I'd say it has too much cross because the front end had bite when it was tacky. We run short track with similar conditions and when we have too much cross it plows like a bulldozer. Black Sand does do the trick for dry dusty short track I have to agree. Good luck
 
What kind of camber caster gauge is it? Actual purpose built Digital or bubble, or a framing square with an angle finder?

How did you measure caster with it?

Did you hold the base of the gauge against something plumb to verify the gauge was accurate?
 
At this stage I would recommend that you don't measure the caster with a gauge. Contact trick/olimpic and set your caster using the marks on the caster blocks and frame. How you use the caster gauge can dramatically affect your measurement.
 
Sorry haven't repliedin a while. I set the caster and camber. Ran it last week and ran much better. I am just fine tuning on it now. Ran Second.
 
i usually dont comment much on dryslick tracks,dryslick tracks are tricky to deal with,im going to comment on what we do....we run a harder tire with an aggressive prep for bite....not a softner...air pressure is vital for most bite,we never change the setup from tacky to dryslick..we do it with tires/stagger/prep/and air..only adjustments we make on the kart is camber for more or less banking,tires are 100% key to that situation...you can make 10 changes to the chassis and not gain one ounce of speed if the tires arent right,work your tires...;)
 
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