Track Tac

Undetectable hoosier tread prep, mini outlaw

JPMKarting said:
If you want to get specific, the rule says "no tire dope allowed at the speedway".

I think you're barking up the wrong tree here...
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You bring up a good point. Perhaps the rule should read something more like "The use of all forms of tire altering chemicals is strictly prohibited for all classes."

The tree I'm barking at is that we are totally cool with discussing how to cheat with tires and still pass the duro test, but there were several on here willing to hand out lifetime bans for fuel additives that were being discussed that pass the fuel test. I just find it interesting that this one gets a pass on the "ban hammer" discussions. Furthermore, two top tier tire companies admitting to, or recommending strategies to circumvent the rules. If you want to cheat that's fine, but call it what it is, cheating.
 
It's racing and it's always been in racing that if they don't tech it's open.
Sprit and intent is just that a ghostly sprit with no intent if where your racing is too cheap to throw their nickel into the tech pot.
And yes any track or organization not willing fork over the cash to back out their BS type rules is just that full of BS.

The only thing rules without tech backup do is stick it to a few "do gooders" so dumb they can't comprehend racing beyond their Lilly white noses.
Total BS to preach or say >any< racer has not done something outside the rules at least once weather intended or not.
If there is one holy saint racer who has never done anything outside the rules knowing or unknowingly, they ain't never finished up far enough to be teched anyway and are just blowing smoke.

If a track or series is to cheap or can't afford to back up their rules their just blowing smoke up everyone's butts.

RULES NEED TO BE FAIR. If you don't back up an imposed rule then it's not a FAIR RULE.
simple as that
 
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You missed the point of the life time ban comments when they took place before, and your still missing the point. The only reason the life time ban was brought up with the fuel additives was because of the ones NHRA banned because of " KNOWN PROVEN " serious health implications, not just the fact they could be harmful clause, or just that it was cheating had nothing to do with calling for life time ban myself and others explained that at the time.
 
Anyone caught using "Raid for People" in their fuel or on their tires should be banned for life.
Weather there's a rule about it or not.

If i'm remembering right the Raid for people is something like dioxin<sp ???

and I have not read the banned for life fuel discussion on here. so sorry if i'm off subject ... again
 
@paulkish I have never cheated. Finished top 3 all the time.

@racing promotor I guess because prep somehow isn't deemed dangerous chemicals by us kart racers then that makes using prep in an non-prep class not as bad? In my book cheating is cheating. You run an illegal cam, you're cheating, you run illegal tires, you're cheating. I guess I just don't understand why we are totally ok with it being so widely discussed as to how to get around no-prep rules.
 
probably because in motorsports its not about cheating it's about not getting caught because "everybody's cheating" Some people are legendary cheaters like Smokey Yunick and Colin Chapman. people actually look up to these rule benders with admiration. every major car company Chevy Ford, Toyota Ferrari have all be caught cheating. you can hear stories on youtube about the things people did filling frame rails with lead shot and the like. a lot of racers think this is funny not really so much looked down upon. Whats sad is when Parents cheat up the jr drivers motors etc. basically teaching the kid being dishonest is the way to get ahead in life.
 
I'm only pointing out the " BAN " part had nothing to do with the fact it was just cheating, it was brought up in that thread there should be different penalties for different forms of cheating, and difference from being found illegal to out right cheating.

IF the rule reads 100 % NO PREP allowed to be applied to tires period, then yes applying prep would be cheating and should have some ramifications, BUT wouldn't fall in the same category for me as the life time ban with the fuel additives.
 
jaymancds said:
Why else would you need an "undetectable" prep if it wasn't a no prep class? You and I both know it is cheating.


From English Creek's website
View attachment 17007


Pretty cut and dried to me. Openly discussing cheating, how to cheat, and who is the best prep for cheating from highly respected tire guys in our sport. That doesn't sound very good to me.
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I'd have to read the entire rule to form a strong opinion, IF it's my intent to have a NO PREP ALLOWED rule it's not going to read the way this rule above does.
 
^^^ they read different there .
The spec rules for the national state duro only .
Its back too wka no prep deal . we didn't use prep .
No proof the winners were or weren't except hear say ...;)
 
jaymancds said:
@paulkish I have never cheated. Finished top 3 all the time.

@racing promotor I guess because prep somehow isn't deemed dangerous chemicals by us kart racers then that makes using prep in an non-prep class not as bad? In my book cheating is cheating. You run an illegal cam, you're cheating, you run illegal tires, you're cheating. I guess I just don't understand why we are totally ok with it being so widely discussed as to how to get around no-prep rules.
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I bet I can find at minimum, 3 things illegal on your kart per the WKA rulebook :)
 
The track tire rule quoted said: AT THE Track. So if they don't catch your prepping at the track your ok.

If they really meant what they wrote there would be no need to further say tires could be tested.
 
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jaymancds said:
Why else would you need an "undetectable" prep if it wasn't a no prep class? You and I both know it is cheating.


From English Creek's website
View attachment 17007


Pretty cut and dried to me. Openly discussing cheating, how to cheat, and who is the best prep for cheating from highly respected tire guys in our sport. That doesn't sound very good to me.
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The OP never said it was a no prep class, its a duro test according to post #1....which is what i based an answer off of.
I never said a thing about "undetectable" prep. I dont need to with a duro rule. Look back to post #8, my response to post #1.
Now since you brought into the conversation the rules above, it says no at track prepping. A lot of places do this, which allows tires to be prepped at home.
I dont see anywhere in this thread where i ADVOCATED cheating in any way. If you see differently, then that is your opinion.
 
SoCo Tire Treatments said:
Theres lots of prep out there that will pass duro tests, thats an easy pass. Lab testing however is more difficult, but can be done. Our Race Car Preps have been doing quite well. Anything i can help with, just give me a shout.
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Seems like a nudge in the cheating direction to me. If I'm reading it wrong, then my apologies, but saying that it is possible to beat a lab test followed by a statement about the success of one of your prep lines sure makes it sound like that prep line has been passing the lab tests with success.
 
Recently around here a lot of car tracks will do nothing at all about off track prepping and you see more and more car with tires both on and off the car with clear wrap around them.
They have nothing in their rules about any specific duro reading.
All they care about is you don't get caught prepping AT the track making them get involved with prepping BS.
And that you have the correctly marked type and brand of tires insuring them they get their kick back from retailers.
 
IMHO, All we know from posts is English Creek does not want any prepping of any kind.
But the only thing they do is take a duro reading and proclaim they will impound tires.

Has English Creek ever impounded a tire and spent the cash to have it tested?
Do they even sniff test for prep with a nose or electronics and after impounded a tire followed up by testing and some sort of punishment?

I'm betting the answer is no.
If it is no then at English Creek either run in the back and quit complaining or prep your tires like everyone else.
If it takes prepped tires to win at English Creek then prep or go around like a pig or a slug feeling proud your not cheating and are the last upright true do gooder in the whole country.

They should have a last chance to feel good race with those who finish half way back or more to be the fastest of the slow guys. ... :)
 
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