Use of AKRA Rules

jjchat

Member
First let me say there is NO ULTERIOR motive in my post.

Myself and a couple of other racers started a class out here in the Pacific NW for clones. We decided to adopt the AKRA BP rules as it was closest to the rules of another group of racers. Unlike IKF and WKA rules, they were public with no requirement for the track to adopt insurance or AKRA rules for every other class. Finally, the rules were posted here on Bob's for everyone else to see.

This year, it appears that only the updates will be posted and to get the full rules you need to contact the AKRA office by phone. Does this mean that the rules are no longer free to use? I have no problem buying a rule book. However, does that mean I can't publish the rules on our track's forum boards?

I understand that there is expense in developing rules and I am not opposed to supporting that. I want to make sure that I am honoring the system.

jjchat
 

XXX#40

2A supporter
For years we used WKA rules for flatheads, and the majority of the tracks were in no way connected to WKA
 

flattop1

Dawg 89
wka and ikf both have a disclaimer soley for use by this organization.
pretty likely akra has the same.
 

DynoDon

Moderator
Here is why ORG's are a little touchy on allowing tracks that are not sanctioned with the ORG. to use their rules. LONG story short, there was a death at a track many years ago in a karting event. The lawyers sued every one they could think of, including the ORG. that had the rules. The track that the accident happened at was using the ORG's rules but was not a member of the ORG. It cost the ORG. hundreds of thousands of dollars in lawyer fee's just to get them out of the suit. That is why you will not see a full set of rules posted. Also, keep this in mind. If you are not a paid member of WKA, IKF, AKRA and you have a problem you would like for them to help you solve, Do not expect them to pick up the phone and talk to you. THAT is why I suggest highly that Karters become a member of the ORG. Membership has it's privileges!!!!
 

C&L_MOTORSPORTS

New member
Here is why ORG's are a little touchy on allowing tracks that are not sanctioned with the ORG. to use their rules. LONG story short, there was a death at a track many years ago in a karting event. The lawyers sued every one they could think of, including the ORG. that had the rules. The track that the accident happened at was using the ORG's rules but was not a member of the ORG. It cost the ORG. hundreds of thousands of dollars in lawyer fee's just to get them out of the suit. That is why you will not see a full set of rules posted. Also, keep this in mind. If you are not a paid member of WKA, IKF, AKRA and you have a problem you would like for them to help you solve, Do not expect them to pick up the phone and talk to you. THAT is why I suggest highly that Karters become a member of the ORG. Membership has it's privileges!!!!
Don don't mean to disagree with you but if a track (states) they run akra,wka,nka or whatever on their website or posts advertising a race even though their not a sanctioned track from that group they can still be pulled into a civil case because of the advertisement. If you have nka or wka insurance you better follow all the rules including the weights of the karts and all safety equipment. Even though the driver or crew signs a waiver that is meaningless in a court case.
 

DynoDon

Moderator
I am not sure what you are disagreeing with me about because I happen to agree with you. The president of The particular Org. that I was discussing personally informed me of what I explained. It cost them 700 thousand dollars in attorney fee's just to get them out of going to trial. That Org. had nothing to do with the track that had the incident but because they were advertising they were following those rules, they got hit with the suit. Here is another situation that can get a track in trouble. If an injury takes place between two karts both karts need to be impounded and teched for legality for the purpose of making sure one of the karts was not illegal. The track then has evidence that they were not responsible for the injury as long as the kart was pre teched before the event. Just sayin.
 

C&L_MOTORSPORTS

New member
Now how many tracks do a pre race safety inspection? I have been to a few who even skip the drivers meeting. I have seen barbell weights bolted to the floor pan with a 1/4" bolt thru them. They never got to race. Just saying that it is the tracks responsibility for safety and the thing they don't realize is if it's found that they allowed the racer on the track their insurance is null and void and it will be on the tracks dime! Ever wonder why the helmet is taken by the EMS personnel? It should have the proper DOT date.
 

Mizeracing

Member
Many local tracks use AKRA rules today and are not members or sanctioned tracks, you will find out if you need AKRAs help after a protest to review impounded parts.
 

mikey56

New member
sanctioning bodies and the rules they institute are good. only problem that i've had is when one rule contradicts another. with that being said, when i was asked to develop the rules for our track, i took into consideration rules put out by wka/akra and took the best of each. but!! i don't advertise that the rules come from any sanctioning body or advertise that thier rules would be acceptable for our racing class (stock appearing). i heard from one promoter about this kind of advertising and he said that it's like calling your class "nascar style modifieds"....your implying that nascar is in some way sanctioning the class or being involved (even tho you never intended it that way). best thing to do is to write up your rules and dropping any reference to any sanctioning body and rewording the rules so that those same sanctioning bodies can't come back after you for copyright infringement (and you can rest assured, they do copywrite the rules!). depending on how you write the rules and the specs for the class, you shouldn't need to ask the sanctioning bodies anything.....not that they wouldn't help, but like every one has said....they won't give up anything very easily because you aren't part of "thier" family.

helmets are usually taken not solely for checking the dates or certification....talked to one of the EMS folks at AMS (Atlanta)....the doctors want the helmet in hard and violent crashes to check for impact damage to the inside...any deformation on the inside means that your noggin took a hit....
 

alvin l nunley

Premium User
Copy write, I think, (I’m no lawyer) covers many things.
Back in the early days of computers, the OS, (Operating system) used by generic builders of computers came under fire from IBM. One builder, Eagle, had to discontinue selling computers, for a time, because IBM took them to court for copy write infringement of the IBM OS.
Several OS builders went to great lengths to make sure their OS was written with no prior knowledge of the IBM code. Still, there was found to be some code that was exactly the same as IBM’s. In court, these companies’s proved that there was no other way to write those sections and that the fact that they were the same, was just coincidental and that they had not copied the code from IBM. The courts upheld their claims.
So if your rules say the same thing, but with a different structure/wording, you better be ready to prove you had no prior knowledge of the rules you copied. And, I think, that’s going to be pretty hard.
I’m no lawyer, but I think, if you use WKA rules, you really need to get their permission. They wrote them and you’re violating, (just a guess) their copy right’s.
Now, not being a lawyer, I’m really only guessing, but if it was my track, or club, I would check it out.
It seems to me, if you’re using their rules, and putting that knowledge into your race announcements, and not paying WKA for the rights to their rules,………well, I would check it out.
The fact that WKA, (or IKF etc.) does not protect their copy write protections, does not make it OK to steal their rule book.
Comments, compliments, criticisms and questions always welcome.
 

billmcfast

Premium User
jjchat,

If you will call the AKRA office(704-764-8138) we will do our best to help out with your racing programs and rules package. We are proud of our efforts since 2005 to help tracks and racers enjoy and participate in this great sport of Karting>

Thank You,

Bill McCutcheon
AKRA, Inc
 

mikey56

New member
your right about the infringement....but, for instance....if you call your class "stock appearing" and wka/akra also have a class called stock appearing, then it can be classified as a common class or assumption that it is common to call a class that. when i wrote our rules i was very cognizant of what i wanted and i talked to a gentleman with wka/akra (sorry name escapes me) and all he said was using rules similar was fine as long as i didn't associate the rules or the conduct of the event in any way connecting wka/akra with it. not exactly permission mind you, all he wanted was to make sure that wka/akra wasn't involved.

according to wikipedia: Copyright law protects the expression of an idea, but copyright does not protect the idea itself. This limitation is called the idea/expression dichotomy. The distinction between "idea" and "expression" is fundamental, but not always clear. From the 1976 Copyright Act (17 U.S.C. § 102): In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work.

copyright law is more defined for the arts and literature...not so much on methods or principles like rules....

but like al....i'm no lawyer...i just know that i called and although they were very nice about my asking, they made it perfectly clear that the rules as they have them written are thiers....i had to make my own rules but they could be based on what is common for the kart racing environment....
 

mikey56

New member
sounds like a good idea to me too!! thanks bill!! we wanted to go a different direction and yet still have some positive control over the rules.
 
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